Turning over a new leaf in the Soap Box

[Sarah in SC]

Ha, I hope we'll while away the hours here on the fabulous "other topics", like bacon, old cars, dance, movies, books, and travel destinations...and don't forget our various bodily ailments and disabilities.

I believe that the basic civility of all of us will improve if we don't know each other's politics and that this is a positive change for the tenor of the board discussion.

 

[REWahoo]

So how can we be expected to pleasurably kill time around here without joking and the occasional barfight?

This change has absolutely nothing to do with joking, which will continue to be highly encouraged. If left up to me, proof of a sense of humor would be a requirement for board membership. No joke.

As to bar fights, the same rules apply here as in most bars: take it outside.

 

[Purron]

If left up to me, proof of a sense of humor would be a requirement for board membership. No joke.

I vote giant bunny slippers should also be a requirement.

 

[TromboneAl]

Someone in Iraq throwing a shoe at President Bush is NOT relevant to FIRE.

Someone threw a shoe at Sarah Palin, but she threw it back 'cause it wasn't a Prada.

 

[Bestwifeever]

I have a good friend who has completely stopped communicating with me since right before the election. She was involved in a political discussion with someone else (not related to me as family or friend, just another acquaintance), their discussion was completely amenable as they were both on the same side, and "her" candidate won (whom I also voted for, which she knew I planned to, but did not financially support as she did). Apparently the fact that I simply did not join in the bashing but continued talking about something nonpolitical with another acquaintance was enough for her to write me off.

There was a reason politics and religion were taboo subjects for the dinner table. I miss her.

On the other hand, REWahoo's reference to "we'll know it when we see it," makes me perk up hoping there will be some good old fashioned p*rn joking around (I believe that "it" was pornography in that quote)! Bring it on!

Somehow we all managed to visit this board and have a ton of fun on it pre-Soapbox. I don't see what that will be any different now that the election is over and the Soapbox is on hiatus. Unless some of you are mad at me for not supporting someone enough, like my friend

 

[REWahoo]

Feever, two points:

I have a good friend...

I think the correct wording might be "had"...

On the other hand, REWahoo's reference to "we'll know it when we see it,"

...and Gumby gets the credit for Justice Potter Stewart's porn comment.

To paraphrase U.S. Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart -- "We'll know it when we see it."

 

[Bestwifeever]

Gumby, Gumby, of course. I don't know why I think REWahoo when I think "it."

 

[ziggy29]

Gumby, Gumby, of course.

 

[bbbamI]

If left up to me, proof of a sense of humor would be a requirement for board membership. No joke.

I'm doing the best I can to keep my sense of humor, but lately attempting that has taken its toll on me....

 

[ls99]

This change has absolutely nothing to do with joking, which will continue to be highly encouraged. If left up to me, proof of a sense of humor would be a requirement for board membership. No joke.

As to bar fights, the same rules apply here as in most bars: take it outside.

Recovering from bar fights is a good time to contemplate early retirement. Both from bar fights and w*rk.

There is an old Aleutian method of avoiding some bar fights, throw your knife in the bar, if it does not come back at you, it is safe to go in.

 

[Notmuchlonger]

I think the soapbox was perfect. All the political stuff went into it and people finally got trained to do so. Now its going to be spewed all over the boards.

 

[HFWR]

I think the soapbox was perfect. All the political stuff went into it and people finally got trained to do so. Now its going to be spewed all over the boards.

I disagree; I think it had already infected both FIRE AND MONEY and OTHER TOPICS, and that the usual suspects were basically given free reign.

And exactly why is it okay for NML to use "that word", when it wasn't okay in my post?

 

[Martha]

Nobody complained or noticed?

 

[Notmuchlonger]

I disagree; I think it had already infected both FIRE AND MONEY and OTHER TOPICS, and that the usual suspects were basically given free reign.

And exactly why is it okay for NML to use "that word", when it wasn't okay in my post?

My apologies. I shall edit it.

 

[Midpack]

keep in mind the focus of this board. It's about early retirement. It's not about full contact politics; there are plenty of other places to go if you simply want to argue politics. In fact, i think your comment is evidence as to *why* generic political discussion needs the kibosh. It's because many people who enjoy full-contact politics are incapable of keeping it civil ("polite" and "subtle" to use your words) that we felt this is necessary.

You say we "can't be polite... With people who are wrong." two problems here: First. You can be polite with people who are "wrong"; it is possible to disagree with someone without thinking they are evil or stupid. And if you can't, that's a clear violation of the terms of service and the community rules. That's one of the things that personally depresses me about political discussion; sometimes it seems like people can't accept that intelligent and well-meaning people can possibly be "on the other side."

the second problem is that there isn't usually a "right" and a "wrong." there are merely two different perspectives. Okay, in extreme cases there may be right and wrong, but that's not the norm.

I hate to say it in some sense, but in my opinion what you said is exactly *why* we need to get rid of the soap box as we know it. Too much allowance on politics tends to create an us-versus-them attitude that can harm the sense of community and common goal that should bring us together. This forum is about early retirement. When political issues relate to fire, respectful and on-topic discussion of the political aspects is acceptable. When it bursts into flames, and when it has nothing to do with fire, it just divides us and makes life miserable. Who wants that?

IT WAS A JOKE!!! Of course we can be polite and of course there's rarely a "right" and a "wrong" - sorry to anyone who thought it was serious.

 

[W2R]

IT WAS A JOKE!!! Of course we can be polite and of course there's rarely a "right" and a "wrong" - sorry to anyone who thought it was serious.

Thank you SO MUCH for explaining! I took it the other way, too, and was puzzled as it didn't like something the Midpack we all know would say.

 

[Martha]

I don't mind heated discussions and we aren't always going to be polite. But snarky sarcasm is a big problem in political discussions. Maybe it is because the same people tend to participate and they become frustrated with each other because minds rarely change.

Ha, I don't see us as becoming a bunch of namby pambies. We still will argue about health care, tin foil hats, how cars are sold.

Sam, you pointed out some issues/fine lines. We will feel our way out as we go. If anyone questions a topic you can always pm a mod or admin and get some feedback.

 

[bssc]

I think that the tone that would best serve the board is the US Senate where our Senators agree to disagree but are (usually) very congenial.

 

[haha]

Ha, I don't see us as becoming a bunch of namby pambies. We still will argue about health care, tin foil hats, how cars are sold.

Martha, I think you will be proven right. I don't really like dumb arguments either, but they don't bother me. I either contribute a little, or walk on by.

But I do think that separating politics from the rest of life is more or less impossible. Politics is trying to create alliances to get more of what your group wants, at the expense of what the other group wants. This is pretty much life's core issue, outside of the spiritual and very personal. An interest in politics is necessary for active investment management.

Last night I saw a very good 1 1/2 hour PBS piece on the life and career of Lee Atwater. In spite of the basically disapproving stance taken "Wasn't he a bad thing for American politics?", it was interesting and Lee as a man was attractive in that special way of a typically conflicted and messed up and ironic Southern man. I absolutely love thinking and talking about people and things like this. I have one friend with the interest, smarts, education and freedom of mind for this kind of discussion. He is a retired professor. He lives in another Puget Sound City and we meet once a month, but I would sure enjoy more. I think many people here have the capacity for this kind of discussion too.

But I understand your and the other mods points.

Ha

 

[samclem]

I think that the tone that would best serve the board is the US Senate where our Senators agree to disagree but are (usually) very congenial.

I agree. And I think political discussions "work" better here (even if segregated into the Soapbox) than anywhere else I've seen on the net. For the most part, if you go to a dedicated political web site/discussion board, the personalities of the other posters never develop beyond two-dimensional political cartoon characterizations. Its easy to name-call and hard to have a meaningful discussion when everyone is just a political hack. Here, we get to know each other a little bit, and we depend on each other for advice, info, and maybe even occasional emotional support for all kinds of things--recipes, leaky roofs, cranky kids, asset allocation, wedding planning, etc. Senators (usually) maintain a collegial tone with each other for two reasons: They never know who's help they might need in the future, and because they have often formed relationships, even across the aisle, that make it less likely that they'll see their political adversary as an idiot worthy of a put-down. I think the same applies here--except for the occasional drive-by poster or those who ONLY talk politics, the folks here do tend to be respectful of each other while disagreeing with the points made. That's why I'll miss the exchange of political views (usually polite, well reasoned, and sometimes with appropriate supporting info) that I get here and nowhere else. As a practical matter, as Ha points out, it is also often difficult to separate politics from the rest of our lives. The Soapbox at least let folks self-segregate topics that might be more heavily partisan.

 

[Rich_by_the_Bay]

Is shoe-throwing allowed?

 

[REWahoo]

Is shoe-throwing allowed?

Only if there is no disclosure of whether they were dodged by moving left or right....

 

[Janet H]

Is shoe-throwing allowed?

Yes. Please throw these directly at me. Size 11, black. Mephistop Klara - WOMEN'S BOOTS

Aim carefully and try not to scratch them.

 

[Bestwifeever]

Yes. Please throw these directly at me. Size 11, black. Mephistop Klara - WOMEN'S BOOTS

Aim carefully and try not to scratch them.

We can really see into your sole, Janet--

New only, or are gently worn boots all right?

 

[freebird5825]

I have a good friend who has completely stopped communicating with me since right before the election. ...Apparently the fact that I simply did not join in the bashing but continued talking about something nonpolitical with another acquaintance was enough for her to write me off.

This happened to me with 2 acquaintances.
I listened politely to their pitch to get me to vote "their way", but told them both I was apolitical with friends, as a rule. I would not engage.
I believe in the curtain at the polling places - voting is private as a personal freedom of choice.
I guess that was too radical.
Oh well...