What was your COVID news for the day?

[audreyh1]

This should (but probably won't) end the false hope hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine is an effective treatment for those with Covid 19:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/05/22/hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-study/

Wow - thanks for that info. That’s pretty stark!

And there are people taking it in advance of infection as a preventative.

 

[travelover]

Wow - thanks for that info. That’s pretty stark!

And there are people taking it in advance of infection as a preventative.

Or claiming to be taking it.

 

[W2R]

I think this page on the CDC website is quite interesting.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/how-covid-spreads.html

On this webpage the CDC states that the virus does NOT spread easily from touching objects or surfaces.

Also the risk of COVID-19 spreading from animals to people is low. (My silent thoughts...even bats? Wow.)

Here's what they say about how it is actually spread:

The webpage says that while COVID-19 is less contagious than the measles, it is now thought to spread mainly through close contact from person-to-person. To me this explains how the frail and elderly in nursing homes may be especially likely to get COVID-19; their care involves a lot of close contact.

Of course it is a good idea to keep disinfecting and so on, but to me the info on this webpage highlights the even greater importance of not being in close contact with numerous people, some of whom could be sick.

 

[mpeirce]

This should (but probably won't) end the false hope hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine is an effective treatment for those with Covid 19

Sigh...

The Lancet study was not using the recommended combination that I've been reading about since the beginning of this whole CV-19 thing. The Lancet study focused on:

four treatment groups (chloroquine alone, chloroquine with a macrolide, hydroxychloroquine alone, or hydroxychloroquine with a macrolide), and patients who received none of these treatments

Everything I read about hydroxychloroquine is that the zinc component is key. Basically that the hydroxychloroquine assists the zinc coming into cells and that is what retards the virus infecting the cells.

So this study does NOT disprove the recommended treatment with hydroxychloroquine, zinc, and azithromycin. BYW, the President takes his specific combination prophylacticly, not the drug by itself.

Here's another recent study done at NYU Grossman School of Medicine that addresses this combo specifically:

In the study, half of 900 COVID-19 patients were given the triple-drug combo of hydroxychloroquine, zinc, and azithromycin. The other half were given only hydroxychloroquine and the antibiotic, azithromycin.

The results of the study revealed that the patients who received the triple-drug combo had a 1.5 times greater probability of getting better from the disease. They were also more likely to eventually be discharged from the hospital compared to those who were only given the double-drug combination.

Doesn't sounds like a false hope to me. Sounds like something worth trying in consultation with your doctor and worthy of further study.

 

[REWahoo]

Sounds like something...worthy of further study.

^ At least we can agree on this.

Rahimian said that their next approach would be to do a prospective study to see if the research holds up in people receiving zinc. Hydroxychloroquine has been proven effective in lab settings, but not in people.

 

[6miths]

Sigh...

The Lancet study was not using the recommended combination that I've been reading about since the beginning of this whole CV-19 thing. The Lancet study focused on:

Everything I read about hydroxychloroquine is that the zinc component is key. Basically that the hydroxychloroquine assists the zinc coming into cells and that is what retards the virus infecting the cells.

So this study does NOT disprove the recommended treatment with hydroxychloroquine, zinc, and azithromycin. BYW, the President takes his specific combination prophylacticly, not the drug by itself.

Here's another recent study done at NYU Grossman School of Medicine that addresses this combo specifically:

In the study, half of 900 COVID-19 patients were given the triple-drug combo of hydroxychloroquine, zinc, and azithromycin. The other half were given only hydroxychloroquine and the antibiotic, azithromycin. The results of the study revealed that the patients who received the triple-drug combo had a 1.5 times greater probability of getting better from the disease. They were also more likely to eventually be discharged from the hospital compared to those who were only given the double-drug combination.

Doesn't sounds like a false hope to me. Sounds like something worth trying in consultation with your doctor and worthy of further study.

Oh come on. So it's the zinc. Or is it important to take it under the light of the full moon. It doesn't strike you that the '1.5 times greater probability of getting better from the disease' is somewhat similar to the 34% reduction in death in the people on placebo in the dramatically larger study of people taking the hydroxychloroquine and antibiotic. So maybe the zinc neutralizes the deadly effects of the hydroxychloroquine? Or maybe it's just a small study. Whatever the truth it looks like one might be much better advised to avoid taking the potentially deadly hydroxychloroquine and just stick with the placebo. I am very happy if the President wants to exercise his right to chose his own path and continues on the hydroxychloroquine. I would, however, appreciate it if he would stop espousing unproven therapies. And yes, further study is needed but apparently not on hydroxychlorquine and antibiotic. And sure since that combination apparently kills people, I think it very reasonable to study what happens when we add zinc to the combination. Oh wait... well maybe not very. Rant off.

 

[24601NoMore]

COVID news of the day from here in MI..

Our Governor has extended the state lockdown until JUNE 12, even though we seem to be doing pretty well getting the virus under control compared to some other states.

I'm truly wondering how we are going to pay for all the Unemployment Insurance and other CV-19 expenditures while revenues (ie: taxes) are WAY down at the same time.

I suspect we'll see huge future tax increases in just about every area (property taxes, sales taxes, taxes on breathing )and probably asking the Fed for a bailout - which I sure hope would not happen..

Tough to balance the health and economic sides of all this.

 

[aiken]

Oh come on. So it's the zinc. Or is it important to take it under the light of the full moon. It doesn't strike you that the '1.5 times greater probability of getting better from the disease' is somewhat similar to the 34% reduction in death in the people on placebo in the dramatically larger study of people taking the hydroxychloroquine and antibiotic. So maybe the zinc neutralizes the deadly effects of the hydroxychloroquine? Or maybe it's just a small study. Whatever the truth it looks like one might be much better advised to avoid taking the potentially deadly hydroxychloroquine and just stick with the placebo. I am very happy if the President wants to exercise his right to chose his own path and continues on the hydroxychloroquine. I would, however, appreciate it if he would stop espousing unproven therapies. And yes, further study is needed but apparently not on hydroxychlorquine and antibiotic. And sure since that combination apparently kills people, I think it very reasonable to study what happens when we add zinc to the combination. Oh wait... well maybe not very. Rant off.

Just a few details on this study.

1. It was a retrospective meta study that was not randomized and had no control group. Confounding factors, and where patients were in the disease state weren't taken into consideration. It is unclear if zinc was given in many studies, which is the whole concept behind HCQ. It's an ionophore that allows zinc into the cells. Why is zinc critical? Prevention magazine article in 2018 says "Zinc inadequacy often shows up in people over 60." It also states..."Zinc deficiency has been linked to a slew of diseases, including diabetes, arthlerosclerosis, neurological disorders, and auto immune diseases."

2. The study combined Chloroquine and Hyrdroxychoroquine as if they were the same. Hydroxy is less toxic.

3. Much of the data came from outside the US where toxic doses of Chloroquine were tried along with more normal doses. Again, hydroxy is the less toxic form.
4. Arrhymithia did double with both, but it was still a relatively rare occurrence. Since many COVID deaths have cardiovascular disease as an underlying condition, it would seem that those folks shouldn't be given HCQ. In the fog of war, when doctors are desperate, it's easy to second guess.
5. 2.5 million Americans take HCQ on a regular basis for auto immune related diseases. The CDC says "HCQ typically is very well tolerated. Serious side effects are rare." Rheumatology.org says "Hydroxychloroquine is a relatively well tolerated medicine.


Based on the above, I suspect the debate will continue regarding this drug.

 

[eastnortheast]

Interesting you are in Thailand. Just today I read an article about Thailand having low COVID-19 cases and this article attributed the low cases at least in part to the fact that most people in Thailand use a sinus rinse nettie pot daily. Do you know anything about this? I use a nasal rinse daily similar to the nettle pot--it is a nasal rinse bottle by Neilmed. I started using it a few years ago on the advice of my doctor to prevent sinus infections and it does help prevent those.

I am not who the question was directed to, but I will chime in. LOL

I saw the same or similar article and I believe it said something like 80% of the population in Thailand uses this. I dont know where this number came from, but I do not think it is anywhere close to being correct.

I used to be our company's country manager for Thailand, and after seeing this article, I reached out to a number of people there in Thailand and to a person, no one uses a sinus rinse pot on a daily basis, and most had never used one.

It may have some benefit in the fight against COVID-19, but at least in Thailand, I dont think it is the reason. I believe that the lower number of cases (per capita) in most of SE Asia is due to something like the tropical climate, lower age demographics in the population, (less testing), etc.

 

[6miths]

Definitely debate will continue but it would be nice if it were left to scientists and doctors. And 'relatively well tolerated' is fine when a relatively small number of people is on the med but if 100x that many, or a 1000x that many then the net gain can actually become a loss. This has been seen again and again in medicine. And 'relatively well tolerated' is always just that 'relative', when speaking of a somewhat effective drug for systemic lupus this may be true but when speaking of a drug that has not been show to work at all, how well tolerated does it have to be?

2.5 million Americans take HCQ on a regular basis? Pre-COVID? That seems a bit high.

 

[Dtail]

Or claiming to be taking it.

Hydroxygate!!!!

 

[6miths]

Oh and to be clear I am not saying that zinc isn't the absolute silver bullet (no pun intended) but there has been and continues to be ample opportunity to do high quality, highly powered RCTs so my suggestion is to let the trialists do their thing and evaluate treatments and vaccines appropriately and try to limit the irrational exuberance and pump and dump mentality and recognize that their is a method to this process. Sadly, it doesn't lend itself to the 24-hour news cycle and our McDonald's culture.

 

[ivinsfan]

Just a few details on this study.

1. It was a retrospective meta study that was not randomized and had no control group. Confounding factors, and where patients were in the disease state weren't taken into consideration. It is unclear if zinc was given in many studies, which is the whole concept behind HCQ. It's an ionophore that allows zinc into the cells. Why is zinc critical? Prevention magazine article in 2018 says "Zinc inadequacy often shows up in people over 60." It also states..."Zinc deficiency has been linked to a slew of diseases, including diabetes, arthlerosclerosis, neurological disorders, and auto immune diseases."

2. The study combined Chloroquine and Hyrdroxychoroquine as if they were the same. Hydroxy is less toxic.

3. Much of the data came from outside the US where toxic doses of Chloroquine were tried along with more normal doses. Again, hydroxy is the less toxic form.
4. Arrhymithia did double with both, but it was still a relatively rare occurrence. Since many COVID deaths have cardiovascular disease as an underlying condition, it would seem that those folks shouldn't be given HCQ. In the fog of war, when doctors are desperate, it's easy to second guess.
5. 2.5 million Americans take HCQ on a regular basis for auto immune related diseases. The CDC says "HCQ typically is very well tolerated. Serious side effects are rare." Rheumatology.org says "Hydroxychloroquine is a relatively well tolerated medicine.


Based on the above, I suspect the debate will continue regarding this drug.

I don't understand how the Z pac.. hydroxy combination was a common treatment. The FDA has had a heart rhythm warning in Z pac for years. It's widely know that people with certain heart issues should avoid Z pac because it can cause sudden heart rhythm issues potentially fatal ones. My DH has an underlying rhythm and the Z pac is on the list of drugs to avoid.

That said on people treated with both drugs that ended up dying, how would you have any idea which drug caused the bigger problem?

 

[Turbo29]

Suicides on the rise amid stay-at-home order, Bay Area medical professionals say

WALNUT CREEK, Calif. (KGO) -- Doctors at John Muir Medical Center in Walnut Creek say they have seen more deaths by suicide during this quarantine period than deaths from the COVID-19 virus.


The head of the trauma in the department believes mental health is suffering so much, it is time to end the shelter-in-place order.


https://abc7news.com/amp/suicide-co...c-death-by/6201962/?__twitter_impression=true

 

[harllee]

I just can't believe people! My sister in law works in an office. It had been closed due to COVID 19 and she was collecting unemployment. Two weeks ago the office opened back up and SIL went back to work. One day last week one her coworkers came to work obviously sick. The sick coworker was immediately sent home and asked to get a virus test. The test has now come back positive. The office has closed again for cleaning and everyone who works there has to be tested and is in quarantine. I can't believe how irresponsible it was for the person to come to work sick. Of course she was probably infectious for several days before hand anyway but still. SMH

 

[RobbieB]

San Joaquin county eateries are cleared to reopen -

 

[davebarnes]

Data are your friends

Easter was 12APR2020 in Cass County, Iindiana where services were held.
14 days later, oops.

 

[Aerides]

This article is making the rounds today, really informative look at the way Covid spreads, and doesn't:

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2020/05/23/your-guide-how/

 

[CardsFan]

Data can be manipulated

Easter was 12APR2020 in Cass County, Iindiana where services were held.
14 days later, oops.

A 2 day big up-tick, and then things go back to normal? If what you are proposing happened, it would not stop over night.

Maybe I'm wrong, but that makes no sense to me.

 

[USGrant1962]

A 2 day big up-tick, and then things go back to normal? If what you are proposing happened, it would not stop over night.

Maybe I'm wrong, but that makes no sense to me.

Yea, there are ~3,100 counties in the U.S., not sure why this random one is meaningful. The spike looks more like what we have seen when health officials decide to adjust data and include past "suspected" cases in a lump sum.

And 14 days is generally considered the maximum onset of symptoms, typical is 5 days or less.

 

[audreyh1]

I just can't believe people! My sister in law works in an office. It had been closed due to COVID 19 and she was collecting unemployment. Two weeks ago the office opened back up and SIL went back to work. One day last week one her coworkers came to work obviously sick. The sick coworker was immediately sent home and asked to get a virus test. The test has now come back positive. The office has closed again for cleaning and everyone who works there has to be tested and is in quarantine. I can't believe how irresponsible it was for the person to come to work sick. Of course she was probably infectious for several days before hand anyway but still. SMH

Unfortunately, I think we’re going to see this scenario over and over again for a while.

 

[RobbieB]

Of course. We didn't have "sick days" where I worked, just personal time off. So you really had to feel bad burning a PTO day that you could have used for a 3 day weekend.

 

[bmcgonig]

A 2 day big up-tick, and then things go back to normal? If what you are proposing happened, it would not stop over night.

Maybe I'm wrong, but that makes no sense to me.

Normal was around 0 on the 15th it looks like. Took about 3 weeks to get back to that level.

If you look at the area underneath the curve it's actually quite a large increase before and after the peak. That's hard to notice because the Y axis is stretched. It starts rising a few days after Easter, reached a peak then comes down. It's not a blip.

 

[ivinsfan]

Easter was 12APR2020 in Cass County, Iindiana where services were held.
14 days later, oops.

There is a meat packing plant in this county, so very likely this was the problem not people going to church for an hour.

Data is your friend but in this case some research might be in order.

 

[audreyh1]

Well clearly the outbreak (whether previously uncounted cases or not) was contained, because normally you would see exponential spread, not the sudden return to zero. You really need the background story to understand this graph.

Yeah, this was one of the meat packing plant outbreaks, and the plant subsequently shut down and the county went on tighter public restrictions. https://www.chicagotribune.com/subu...0200427-seiwegxw5jdvffxjojwczhpuea-story.html

I would say considering the dire situation this is actually a success story.