Surprised and Concerned

[aaronc879]

Everybody that is not loaded are not miserable .

Only the ones who are still working. I for one would rather be retired and living on $30K/yr than live on $100K/yr but have to work full time. It's not even close.

 

[athena53]

We have gotten to know a lot of the people and the happiest are the mobile park residents . They are mostly living on SS and small pensions with tiny or no savings but they are having a great life .They are retired golfing, playing shuffleboard , doing water aerobics and just having fun. Everybody that is not loaded are not miserable . They are just living their life with their means.

My concern would be the increasing expenses with advancing age- prescription copays, more help cleaning the house, mowing the lawn, doing home repairs, etc. because you are no longer physically able to do it, the one-shot expenses of replacing a car or an HVAC system if you own your place, and the items Medicare doesn't cover such as eyeglasses, hearing aids and dental care.

Yeah, I'm a worrier- but I see my BIL and SIL (he's 82, she's in her late 60s) living in a modular home that's falling down around them, on his military pension and whatever benefits she gets as his spouse. Anything- a major car repair or a dead refrigerator- is a crisis.

 

[kcowan]

I did a transatlantic cruise in 2016. It was the beginning of a 35 day, multi country European trip. One of the great advantages of FIRE is the ability to do slow travel. On the ship I met Floridians who were cruising for the 40th time and taking advantage of incredible bargains. They were sailing all the way to Rome, only to head straight for the airport to fly home.

We met people from England and Wales who stayed on our med cruise ship because they had taken it so often. Cheap all inclusive!

And, having read their posts and temporarily studied them via 'passive acoustic observation methods', we've noted that many prefer to go from one venue to another en masse using 'private' transportation.......which, of course, doesn't come cheaply.

Civitavecchia, (as per your example), to Roma Termini is quick, easy, painless and enjoyable by train....for some of us......for others it's viewed as running the gauntlet and to be avoided at any cost.

Yes we took the train and met with a walking tour guide who showed us the hidden treasures and got us front of the line to the Colosseum. There were 6 of us who arranged that ahead of time thanks to cruisecritic.

I disembarked at Civitavecchia and took the train to Termini, connecting to the Frecciarossa to Firenze, where I had booked a Room with a View!

When we returned via Vueling from Sicily last September, we chose to taxi to Fregene on the med rather than go into Rome again for 2 nights. It is a delightful resort town for Romans but was empty in September. At one restaurant, the waiter had to rely on another patron to ensure he understood our order. But there were several restaurants and a small grocery store, and we had an elevated patio overlooking the beach. We used their free bikes to get around town.

 

[aja8888]

My concern would be the increasing expenses with advancing age- prescription copays, more help cleaning the house, mowing the lawn, doing home repairs, etc. because you are no longer physically able to do it, the one-shot expenses of replacing a car or an HVAC system if you own your place, and the items Medicare doesn't cover such as eyeglasses, hearing aids and dental care.

Yep, you just shook my memory for the last 12 months:

DW's prescriptions (after Part D pays) - ~$4 K OOP
House cleaning - $150/month - DW no longer able to do a decent job
Lawn care (me, fortunately)
New furnace last week - $3370
Glasses, contacts, etc - $500 +/year
Dental - Last year - $40 K - my reconstruction work, two implants, etc. (one time event)
Dental - DW - $1200 root canal
Other Medicare uncovered (not including insurance coverage)- $1000

Yep, getting older is not for sissies and those with limited funds. I'm starting to wonder why we have a 2,000 square foot house with two of us in it? A smaller condo would suit me better.

 

[JoeWras]

I also don't think it's a coincidence that so many here are either engineers or have jobs that offered a pension. It's huge to be able to finish college with an undergrad degree that lets you step into a reasonably well paying job immediately. I was a science major, and thought that would set me up for a good career. Little did I know how low compensation would be! And if you need a grad degree, which many high paying fields demand now, that can really cut into key earning/savings years.

I wanted to be a scientist. Badly.

My mom actually did a little research for me. She was a smart cookie, but only years later did I realize how smart she was since she was "only" a homemaker. Anyway, as part of her parenting, one day, around 9th grade, she said to me:
"Joe, did you know if you want to be an astronomer, you really need a PhD? Do you know what it takes to get a PhD? Oh, and I got this book from the library, check out the pay scales... Have you considered engineering? You might like it."

At the time, I was like, "Yeah, whatever old lady." But it stuck in my mind, and through really good career counseling in my High School, I discovered it was the right way. It became clear to me after calculus in 11th grade, I was not really cut out for PhD tracks anyway. I just didn't think that way."

Anyway, call it lucky, or call it good parenting. Mom really, really had an impact. Thanks mom! Rest in peace.

Footnote: my cousin became an astronomer and does just fine. Yep, he got the PhD. But we're now both burned out on our careers. Different paths, but we're both OK and can R.E. Pure science careers can work too, but you have to get that advanced degree, and man oh man, it is work.

 

[Moemg]

My concern would be the increasing expenses with advancing age- prescription copays, more help cleaning the house, mowing the lawn, doing home repairs, etc. because you are no longer physically able to do it, the one-shot expenses of replacing a car or an HVAC system if you own your place, and the items Medicare doesn't cover such as eyeglasses, hearing aids and dental care.

.

Their houses are 900 to 1100 sq. feet and they own the land so minimal money there . The park maintenance is small and taxes are a few hundred . The lawns are either crushed stone or so small you could cut them in a second . No cleaning ladies or lawn guys . Small compact cars . Happy Hour at the local place $3.00 for well drinks . They walk or golf cart everywhere and are pretty active .Lot's of retired teachers and blue color workers . If they have $10,000 in savings they feel rich.Most have Medicare and a supplement and have had full coverage for health problems. No or very little travel but lots of inexpensive meals out . Most people do not have millions saved and are doing just fine . Let's face it a lot of our money will end up unspent anyway .

 

[aaronc879]

Their houses are 900 to 1100 sq. feet and they own the land so minimal money there . The park maintenance is small and taxes are a few hundred . The lawns are either crushed stone or so small you could cut them in a second . No cleaning ladies or lawn guys . Small compact cars . Happy Hour at the local place $3.00 for well drinks . They walk or golf cart everywhere and are pretty active .Lot's of retired teachers and blue color workers . If they have $10,000 in savings they feel rich.Most have Medicare and a supplement and have had full coverage for health problems. No or very little travel but lots of inexpensive meals out . Most people do not have millions saved and are doing just fine . Let's face it a lot of our money will end up unspent anyway .

That sounds like where I hope to be in my 60's and 70's. Somewhere near Sarasota in a small home with minimal expenses. The difference is I hope to be able to live there 5-6 months and live in my home in Wisconsin the rest of the year.

 

[redduck]

Yep, you just shook my memory for the last 12 months:

Glasses, contacts, etc - $500 +/year
Dental - Last year - $40 K - my reconstruction work, two implants, etc. (one time event)
Yep, getting older is not for sissies and those with limited funds.

OK, I get that maybe you're not a sissy (or so you claim) but you still might want to re-think your signature line: "Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face." -- philosopher Mike Tyson.
+++++
The last twelve months have not been good for your face.

 

[Bir48die]

My deal about coworkers is that I listened to them year after year telling me of all the things they did and what they spent money on. I would tell them "oh, that's nice!" I never changed my philosophy of saving or wanting things. Then they were all shocked when I had had enough and just walked away. I know all workers are not like this and unforeseen things can hold back saving for retirement. Hopefully with SS and some part time work they can at least enjoy the latter stages of their retirement

 

[aja8888]

OK, I get that maybe you're not a sissy (or so you claim) but you still might want to re-think your signature line: "Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face." -- philosopher Mike Tyson.
+++++
The last twelve months have not been good for your face.

Not only has it been not too good for my face (my broken nose scar is still not fixed), but it has taken a toll on my checkbook as well! And Mike's punch line holds true!!

My next sad story will be DD's April wedding which I am somehow obligated to pay for (and she is 37 years old!).

Talk about ANOTHER punch in the face!!

 

[marko]

It shouldn't be surprising that most people's brains are simply not wired to plan ahead. We're wired to figure out where the next meal is coming from and how to avoid being a tiger's next meal.

The 22-year-old who has the foresight to start saving from his/her first job for retirement is truly the evolutionary outlier.

A very interesting and good insight.

But when I was 22, someone told me "Do things now that your 60 year-old self will thank you for". Made an impression on me. I thank that 22 year-old every day now.

 

[NW-Bound]

...The one to whom I am closest is 61, with twin 17 year-old children. I think she has finally awakened to the idea that she may not be able to work until the kids are safely through college. She lamented the other day that she had not been as frugal as me when we were both younger. I honestly don't know what she will do. I reminded her that the kids can borrow money for education, but she can't borrow money to retire. However, she is bound and determined to fully pay for their college. It is a fundamental expectation for parents in our socioeconomic strata.

...Yes I think too many parents consider education of their kids to be their responsibility. Getting the kids educated to the extent of their desire/ability is a good objective. But taking it on is misguided without some skin in the game by them.

That expectation is completely alien to my experience. I honestly can't understand that mindset.

When I was young there was never any question about paying for my college. On a bus driver's salary in NYC we had way too many meals consisting of onion sandwiches to even consider it...

I paid for my children college education because I could afford it (though I liked to complain about it). It's better than leaving them the money when I am dead. I expected them to produce results, not to go to school to party.

When I went to college, my parents could not provide much other than room and board as I lived at home. I took part-time work on the weekends, working two 10-hr shifts in a factory on Friday nights and Saturday nights (4PM-2AM). Sundays were for resting. No time to party. I also helped my parents with the living costs.

 

[street]

I worked and paid my way through school. My parents helped with car and insurance but as far as anything school related it was on me. They didn't have the money to help or they would have.

My son went to college and we helped him with car, insurance and gas. He paid for school by working in high school and in college. He also has done very well for himself doing it on his own with not much help. He was making 6 figures after 7 years working and was making more then me when I was in my last years at work.

He knows the value of money and has learned how it works from home life he was raised.

I would also like to respond to some that have observed that friends they have that aren't wealthy are a lot of fun to be around. I have many friends that will never have much for wealth in their life time. I can say they are some of the best people I have ever known. They would give you their last dime and I believe that isn't always the way the wealthy think even if they could. I'm sure most would help but that tight wad mentality I bet shows up.

 

[Joylush]

I think it's a characteristic inherent in most people. I began to understand this a little bit after reading books like "Your Money and Your Brain", "Predictably Irrational", and "Thinking, Fast and Slow". People evolved to survive on the plains of Africa, not plan for 30 years of retirement.

So we're living in a culture that didn't exist even 100 years ago, let alone 100,000 years or a million. It shouldn't be surprising that most people's brains are simply not wired to plan ahead. We're wired to figure out where the next meal is coming from and how to avoid being a tiger's next meal.

The 22-year-old who has the foresight to start saving from his/her first job for retirement is truly the evolutionary outlier.

Well I was saving for retirement at 22. Thirty four years later the funds are still earning for me. Then again my DNA testing did show I have fewer Neanderthal genes that 80% of the population.

 

[Joylush]

I worked and paid my way through school. My parents helped with car and insurance but as far as anything school related it was on me. They didn't have the money to help or they would have.

My son went to college and we helped him with car, insurance and gas. He paid for school by working in high school and in college. He also has done very well for himself doing it on his own with not much help. He was making 6 figures after 7 years working and was making more then me when I was in my last years at work.

He knows the value of money and has learned how it works from home life he was raised.

I would also like to respond to some that have observed that friends they have that aren't wealthy are a lot of fun to be around. I have many friends that will never have much for wealth in their life time. I can say they are some of the best people I have ever known. They would give you their last dime and I believe that isn't always the way the wealthy think even if they could. I'm sure most would help but that tight wad mentality I bet shows up.

Not sure I'd call it a tight wad mentality. If you don't take care of yourself you will never be in a position to help others. We all just have different comfort levels.

 

[Joylush]

A very interesting and good insight.

But when I was 22, someone told me "Do things now that your 60 year-old self will thank you for". Made an impression on me. I thank that 22 year-old every day now.

And hopefully you thank that "someone" as well! I know exactly how you feel.

 

[tb001]

I wanted to be a scientist. Badly.

My mom actually did a little research for me. She was a smart cookie, but only years later did I realize how smart she was since she was "only" a homemaker. Anyway, as part of her parenting, one day, around 9th grade, she said to me:
"Joe, did you know if you want to be an astronomer, you really need a PhD? Do you know what it takes to get a PhD? Oh, and I got this book from the library, check out the pay scales... Have you considered engineering? You might like it."

At the time, I was like, "Yeah, whatever old lady." But it stuck in my mind, and through really good career counseling in my High School, I discovered it was the right way. It became clear to me after calculus in 11th grade, I was not really cut out for PhD tracks anyway. I just didn't think that way."

Anyway, call it lucky, or call it good parenting. Mom really, really had an impact. Thanks mom! Rest in peace.

Footnote: my cousin became an astronomer and does just fine. Yep, he got the PhD. But we're now both burned out on our careers. Different paths, but we're both OK and can R.E. Pure science careers can work too, but you have to get that advanced degree, and man oh man, it is work.

Wow, that's a great mom! I think my parents were mainly just in awe of the fact that I was going to college and focused on science. Not a lot of college degrees in our family and at that point, there wasn't much emotional energy left over to think about things like this...

Ultimately, it worked out, but I wouldn't recommend it for anyone interested in retiring early! I did get the PhD and left science for business/finance role shortly after, when I did the math myself!

 

[John Galt III]

Sadly more common than not. A few folks left around the same age as me. Others are still working away, some in their upper 60's, one guy in his 70's doing 60+ hours every week.

Some of them really shocked me too. One couple of dinks, both IT, and they have very little set back.

Are these guys in govt or private sector jobs? Private sector usually lays off the old worker bees. Have things changed?

 

[Chuckanut]

I figure my divorce delayed my retirement by two years. Not that bad. But, I made sure I came out of the divorce with my retirement investments intact. And, FWIW, my ex-wife also came out with her retirement assets intact. Alas, she got re-married to a guy whose retirement assets were 1/2 of the tract home he shared with his previous wife and his smile. So, she will work to at least FRA.

 

[MRG]

Are these guys in govt or private sector jobs? Private sector usually lays off the old worker bees. Have things changed?

Private. They all have needed legacy skills. Otherwise they might be gone. When the legacy goes I imagine they do. One guys 60 has two adolescent children at home and just got divorced. He's planning on writing assembly code in his 80s.

 

[John Galt III]

Private. They all have needed legacy skills. Otherwise they might be gone. When the legacy goes I imagine they do. One guys 60 has two adolescent children at home and just got divorced. He's planning on writing assembly code in his 80s.

That's good to hear, that the legacy guys are being retained. Where I worked they were laying off folks *because* they had legacy skills (and were all over 45 and earning more than the new hires, building their pensions, plus management thought 'anyone can do the legacy stuff'). Or just send it to Bangalore. Times have changed, apparently.

 

[Scuba]

Apart from the people on this site, my experience is that most people do not even consider retiring young. They don’t set it as a goal, and they assume they will work until they’re 65 and can go on Medicare. Many people who retire earlier didn’t have a choice. I think for many people, it’s hard to walk away from a well-paying job unless they “have to.”