Interesting article: Is a Hard Life Inherited?

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Seems like the military has been the escape mechanism for many of us, including me (USN)

Yes, me too. At 19 I left a dysfunctional home and joined the AF. I returned to see the status quo, then went to college after Viet Nam and never looked back. I have one sister left and she is OK, but her husband never worked a day in his life. Their two children are OK and have menial jobs. From what I can gather, I am the only person in my family (sisters, cousins, nephews, etc) that has a college degree.

Every time I visit my sister, which is very infrequently, I feel like I was the only one who escaped.
 
Back in 1998, I exchanged correspondence with my brother, who in addition to being a computer engineer, was also a linguist. He passed away, too early in 2004. He was a friend of Noam Chomsky, so we had some interesting conversations via email, about the state of America, and the benefits attending to birth and family.
Recently, before destroying some old hard drives, I found one of my old letters to him... Not really directly applicable to this thread, my thinking at the time.
 

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What I find interesting is - five kids - one makes it out and the other 4 don't.
Same parenting, same neighborhood, same schools, same opportunities.

It is more surprising to figure what the one that made it out had over the four that didn't.
 
What I find interesting is - five kids - one makes it out and the other 4 don't.
Same parenting, same neighborhood, same schools, same opportunities.

It is more surprising to figure what the one that made it out had over the four that didn't.
Ever play with a litter of puppies? Some brash and exploring, some timid and hiding in the corner.........seemingly all identical otherwise.
 
What I find interesting is - five kids - one makes it out and the other 4 don't.
Same parenting, same neighborhood, same schools, same opportunities.

It is more surprising to figure what the one that made it out had over the four that didn't.

Or in a more mild fashion, in my family there were four kids. My brother and I are #2 and #3 of 4. He and I are both millionaires (I was a salaryman, he is an entrepreneur), both my sisters live essentially paycheck to paycheck. Nobody is starving, but there is a wide gap in outcomes. Same parenting, etc. If anything, my sisters (#1 and #4) should have bigger differences in outcomes given the disparity in their ages and the fact that my parents were much better off by the time my younger sister showed up.
 
I was very lucky that my parents both "broke the cycle" and were able to give me a supportive middle class upbringing, stressing independence / self-reliance as the most important goal.

My mothers father left them at her birth in the midst of the depression. My father grew up in Nazi Germany and was allowed into the US after the war after defecting in 1942. I had it very easy.
 
Back in 1998, I exchanged correspondence with my brother, who in addition to being a computer engineer, was also a linguist. He passed away, too early in 2004. He was a friend of Noam Chomsky, so we had some interesting conversations via email, about the state of America, and the benefits attending to birth and family.
Recently, before destroying some old hard drives, I found one of my old letters to him... Not really directly applicable to this thread, my thinking at the time.

Interesting perspective of things as they were/are/will be. Thank you for sharing.
 
Interesting letter Imolderu. And that's just the way it is. Much like the article in this thread. The rules are not equal and never have been.

As to leaving home and breaking the cycle...I think birth order has something to do with your place in life, too. First borners leave home and strike out on their own more often than the other nestlings?
 
Welcome Rushmore. I can relate to your situation, similar to mine. Glad you figured the way out, many don't. I had to go to the same extremes by moving 1500 miles away.

My dry DF wanted to control my life too. He promised a full ride to PSU, under the condition I dumped my future wife. No, I never made it to college, just night courses. It was enough to get me into Megacorp. You'll hear me complain about the insane hours there, very true. What I've never said was how many mentors and role models I had there. I looked around, these people were talking about investments, the profit sharing, financial independence, 401k. Wow how different than how I grew up. Hundreds of people that I could look to for guidance. Many I consider friends today. Oh, that future wife, we celebrated our 39th anniversary last month.
 
Interesting letter Imolderu. And that's just the way it is. Much like the article in this thread. The rules are not equal and never have been.

As to leaving home and breaking the cycle...I think birth order has something to do with your place in life, too. First borners leave home and strike out on their own more often than the other nestlings?

I think that's often true. The more dysfunctional the family, the quicker the firstborn must grow up. DH and I are both first born. I come from your "typical" middle class family (some dysfunction, some good -- how much you let it influence who you become may depend mostly on your in-born personality). My husband on the other hand grew up extremely poor. We just got back from a trip to his mother, trying to help her out -- and that experience is why this thread caught my eye. She's one to talk about how rough her life is, but most of it is her own making. DH grew up with this hyper-religious, angry, hoarding mother, and yet NEVER complains about his childhood. Mostly, he's pretty flat about his past (neither nostalgic nor angry). It's one of the things I most admire about him. I had more resentment about things from my childhood than he, and I've learned to better appreciate what I had.

As to the question of breaking free. DH was born at the end of 1949, but grew up without a father and even without indoor plumbing. However, he was born very intelligent, and perhaps because he was the first born or because he was kind of a nerdy kid, he studied hard. He was his high school valedictorian, and attended college on a full scholarship. His mom still had a copy of his valedictory speech, and this shows just how much he grew because of going away to college (he went out of state). So, I agree, had he not gotten away from home, he might not have done as well. However, he is also white, and was poor rural (not poor inner city). I think inner city can be harder to break out of, and actual abuse can be devastating. He didn't have those hurdles.

Another thing, though, is that people tend to determine how well they are doing by comparing themselves to others. When you come from this type of background, everything is so successful in comparison, that a person might not push themselves as hard. While we are certainly what most folks would consider successful, would he have accomplished more had he had that expectation and example all along? Probably. I don't know that he'd be happier -- we're content. But still, it's likely someone with his intelligence would have accumulated even more, pretty effortlessly, given different expectations from the start.

However, his mom must have done some things right, as both him and his brother did fine, and her grandkids are also in good shape (none wealthy, but solidly middle class). I think his brother married the right woman, and wasn't bothered that she earned more than him. This may be due to the rural family values, which provide a framework even when poorly applied.

One final thought (sorry this is so long). DH and I understand the the experience of people in poverty. Some folks do make poor decisions or get stuck, but it doesn't make them any less human. I've seen as much bad behavior from non-poor, but they often just have a better safety net. We don't sit in judgement and expect perfection from poor people, when we ourselves make mistakes, and much of what we have is luck or having learned how to spot and take advantage of an opportunity. What we find unfortunate, is that some of the poorest people (at least rural) are the strongest supporters of politicians whose platforms are harmful to these same folks. My MIL recently had her SNAP benefits decreased. She's upset about that, but is uber-conservative. She doesn't think she should have to pay anything to the government for programs to help "those people" (which, she doesn't), but thinks of herself as a good person who just fell on hard times and should get help from the government. She sees herself and her benefits as different from the no-name poor masses. She's sort of indoctrinated into these conservative beliefs, without getting how it applies to her situation. I think this is a real issue among a lot of rural poor.
 
She doesn't think she should have to pay anything to the government for programs to help "those people" (which, she doesn't), but thinks of herself as a good person who just fell on hard times and should get help from the government. She sees herself and her benefits as different from the no-name poor masses.

Are you sure she's not really a billionaire?
 
It's not that I think rural folks have family values, and city folks don't. There's some bad areas in rural settings, and there's some inner city folks with strong values. However, folks tend to be further apart in rural settings like the one my husband grew up in, and so the threat of crime is not as high. Also, there aren't the gangs (at least not back in my husband's day), nor the fear of police. I meant being white makes it easier to break out of poverty. It never ceased to amaze me how well-to-do whites, when just sitting around conversing, can say the most racist things. I've never understood that kind of racism. But, in IT anyway, it has made it harder for blacks to get a job, even if they've done everything right.

Just wanted to clarify some earlier statements, lest they be misunderstood.
 
From all the comments in this thread, I think it's safe to conclude that there are no general rules of thumb to apply here.

We each live our own life, and our backgrounds may impel our choices, but they don't compel them.
 
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