Losing faith in Vanguard

[Texas Proud]

If anyone is keeping a tally, you can add me to the list of people who dumped
Vanguard as a custodian. I still have a significant percentage of my stuff in
Vanguard ETFs held at Schwab (solo401k & taxable) and Fidelity (401K, Roth &
cb pension).

I don't have any Vanguard horror stories, just frustration with delays, un-informed
CSR's, lack of timely call backs and lack of flexible policies available at other
custodians. When I determined that Vanguard's solo401K plan did not allow
for roll ins of IRA money I went with Schwab and consolidated everything
away from VG. Couldn't be happier , YMMV

At both Schwab and Fido I am below $1M, but both assigned me my own rep
and both are very good. I get offers for free Turbotax (Fido) and have been to
a couple microbrew steakhouse meetups hosted by my Schwab guy. I've never
been "sold" anything from either or even offered investment product advice
(never asked), not in the slightest.

YMMV, just my individual experience.

What is the cost of buying and selling individual stocks at each?

Are there levels of services like VG at either?

 

[Texas Proud]

This was the plan....

Yep, letter did not work... called them a bit ago but am waiting to get a call back from a manager...

Well, mgr did not call but the low level who sent me the email did and basically said the same thing... the cost basis area will not do anything...

I ripped him up for this... said either fix it or get me to a manager who can get it done...

To me the worst part is that I have a list of securities that have totals at the bottom, and the totals do not match the individual items!!!

I have liked VG for many years, but this is not acceptable. Will give them some time to fix it but I might have to move myself....

 

[mathjak107]

my fidelity rep was with vanguard for 8 years prior to fidelity

 

[bada bing]

What is the cost of buying and selling individual stocks at each?

Are there levels of services like VG at either?

I believe that both Schwab and Fidelity have a published trade commision of
$4.95 per transaction. They both have extensive lists of ETFs and Mutual funds
that trade commision free. In practice, both are somewhat flexible with trading
costs. An account rep at both has latitude to give free trade commissions and
I have received free trades from both. I would guess it depends on your account
profile and history. I have been an account holder with both for 20 years, but
my asset level has grown considerably over the years. I probably only do 6-8
trades a year that could incur a commision and have used "free trades" for more
than half. I have never requested free trades, but get the feeling they are fairly
liberal handing them out. I have read of others negotiating actual cash
"retention bonuses" for accounts in the >$1M range. The current environment
appears to be rather competitive if a person was inclined to milk their accounts.
I have ~$750K at both Schwab and Fidelity, so I'm not at that tier and even if
I was I'm not inclined to put effort into milking an account.

I know at least Fidelity has tiers for account levels at the $250K and $1M levels,
but in practice the perks appear to be available to at least some
account holders below the tiers. I get the free turbotax offer and have a very
good assigned account rep even though I am below the $1M tier level. That is
one difference I have experienced between Vanguard and its competitors. At
Vanguard, things appeared rather cut-n-dried with strict defined limits. Schwab
and Fidelity appear to be more persuadable, which may or may not appeal to
an individual. You can sometimes get things you ask for outside the published
limits at Schwab and Fidelity. That wasn't my experience at Vanguard.

 

[bada bing]

DP - sorry

 

[Texas Proud]

Another question....

Does anybody know where you can see what their websites would look like for an investor? I have tried at both and can not find an example of what their site would look like to me, an investor.

 

[Jimmie]

interesting blog regarding VG.

https://www.bloomberg.com/gadfly/ar...reet-can-t-hold-back-vanguard-s-low-fee-ocean

 

[pb4uski]

Fixed.

Whatever.

 

[michelek]

If you were starting out today- from scratch- which house would you choose? Vanguard. Fidelity? Or another? We all know it’s a major pain to switch everything once a lot of money is at stake. And also once a major mistake had been made, forgiveness is hard to come by. So assuming no prior negative baggage- which house wins for current and future business?

 

[Texas Proud]

If you were starting out today- from scratch- which house would you choose? Vanguard. Fidelity? Or another? We all know it’s a major pain to switch everything once a lot of money is at stake. And also once a major mistake had been made, forgiveness is hard to come by. So assuming no prior negative baggage- which house wins for current and future business?

Never seen or used Schwab, so cannot comment on that...

I had Fidelity for a 401(k)... did not like the site as much as Vanguard... do not know what their retail site is like...

I chose Vanguard since at the time they were so much cheaper and IMO better than what ever else I had seen... I like that I get some free trades at my level and then only pay $2... I do not see that at the others... seems like $5 but some have said you can get free once in awhile...


My brother has BofA Merrill and likes it...

 

[braumeister]

We all know it’s a major pain to switch everything once a lot of money is at stake.

It really isn't. They are all good at handling transfers. Usually one phone call and a few days waiting. At least in my experience.

 

[nwsteve]

If you were starting out today- from scratch- which house would you choose? Vanguard. Fidelity? Or another? We all know it’s a major pain to switch everything once a lot of money is at stake. And also once a major mistake had been made, forgiveness is hard to come by. So assuming no prior negative baggage- which house wins for current and future business?

Have been with both Vanguard's Flagship and Fidelity's Private Client.. Now all at Fidelity. My basic view is if you are a "set and forget" type of investor you will be happy with either one.
OTOH, if you value research tools for things like determining retirement, social security timing, etc, stability in client services, cost effective transactions, an efficient brokerage function, access to 24x7 resources and client support who will solve a problem when you have one versus cite a rule, then Fidelity is your best choice. For the most part, Vanguard does what it does well (low cost funds) but the service component of the relationships seems to be absent with many of the personnel.
I had too many administrative "challenges" with Vanguard with many of the errors representing potentially substantial negative impacts on us to stay with Vanguard. Have yet to have any comparable events with Fidelity. (knock on wood)

 

[jazz4cash]

Never seen or used Schwab, so cannot comment on that...

I had Fidelity for a 401(k)... did not like the site as much as Vanguard... do not know what their retail site is ...

I am stunned by this. I have 2 Fido 401k's as well as IRA and taxable. accounts. They all show up with a single login. The 401k view is the same as the others but different steps are required for transactions. The only complaint I have is the daily summary total includes all accounts but the daily change only includes the non workplace accounts.

The workplace accounts don't update till 10:30pm. We also have Vanguard IRA and it pales in comparison to FIDO. IT's ok, but just very very basic with no bells or whistles. If anything Fido has too many bells, whistles, and buttons.

 

[Texas Proud]

I am stunned by this. I have 2 Fido 401k's as well as IRA and taxable. accounts. They all show up with a single login. The 401k view is the same as the others but different steps are required for transactions. The only complaint I have is the daily summary total includes all accounts but the daily change only includes the non workplace accounts.

The workplace accounts don't update till 10:30pm. We also have Vanguard IRA and it pales in comparison to FIDO. IT's ok, but just very very basic with no bells or whistles. If anything Fido has too many bells, whistles, and buttons.

OK, interesting to know... no knocking the Fidelity site, but it did not appear to me to be any better than Vanguard... and in fact with the changes at Vanguard I like their view better than the one I had at Fidelity... sure, it is basic in a way but has all the info that I want and is easy to get to.... the only problem I have with them now is their cost basis screen lost one of my securities and they do not want to fix it since it a tax issue and does not affect me...

The better one that I had for awhile was TD... it seemed to show the things that I wanted to see easier.... but I do not want to move any money there....

 

[mathjak107]

If you were starting out today- from scratch- which house would you choose? Vanguard. Fidelity? Or another? We all know it’s a major pain to switch everything once a lot of money is at stake. And also once a major mistake had been made, forgiveness is hard to come by. So assuming no prior negative baggage- which house wins for current and future business?

fidelity 100%

 

[mathjak107]

It really isn't. They are all good at handling transfers. Usually one phone call and a few days waiting. At least in my experience.

not in my opinion . trying to get vanguards ACAT dept on the phone to clarify some things was hopeless .

 

[MRG]

not in my opinion . trying to get vanguards ACAT dept on the phone to clarify some things was hopeless .

You will find hit and miss all over. I've been a Fidelity Privite Client for a decade and they won't even return a phone call. I'm currently chatting with someone on their FB page. This is after several calls to the main 800 number.

All I want is a fourth new Privite Client rep in a year. One who's my fiduciary not his own.

 

[Texas Proud]

I was talking to a Vanguard manager yesterday about my problem... he admitted that it is a problem but is not sure how to get it fixed with Vanguards policies....

However, one of the comments he made makes sense.... they are now being overworked due to tax season... IOW, this is the worst time to try and get something done, so I can understand them not returning calls quickly...

 

[Helen]

All I want is a fourth new Privite Client rep in a year. One who's my fiduciary not his own.

I don't believe a Private Client rep has a fiduciary responsibility to you. They have a conflict of interest in that their bonus is tied to things like the amount of money they funnel to PAS, trusts and DAF.

 

[MRG]

I don't believe a Private Client rep has a fiduciary responsibility to you. They have a conflict of interest in that their bonus is tied to things like the amount of money they funnel to PAS, trusts and DAF.

He claimed that he was acting as a fiduciary. Our first conversation he went over our relationship and the difference between fiduciary and appropriate investments.

At this point I don't care, it's in Fidelity's hands. I received a message back they would review his actions. Normally that means pull the tapes and see who said what. I've never been in Fidelity's back office, but typically they don't retain those very long and they have limited search capability.

I'm done with him and Fidelity needs to convince me that they have someone who promotes their products. Much of what he did was bash the company he works for. I should give a 3rd party bond manager my money to manage because "Fidelity isn't a great bond company......".

 

[splitwdw]

You will find hit and miss all over. I've been a Fidelity Privite Client for a decade and they won't even return a phone call. I'm currently chatting with someone on their FB page. This is after several calls to the main 800 number.

All I want is a fourth new Privite Client rep in a year. One who's my fiduciary not his own.

I'm so surprised that they don't call you back. As I mentioned before, if my rep is out and I leave a message, someone from that office calls me back to see if they can help me.

 

[nwsteve]

I don't believe a Private Client rep has a fiduciary responsibility to you. They have a conflict of interest in that their bonus is tied to things like the amount of money they funnel to PAS, trusts and DAF.

I have never had a Fidelity Private Client rep who got bonus or commissions on directing funds to another group or sales. All the docs I have seen say that PC employee ratings are tied to results from annual customer satisfaction ratings. Many PC reps are CFPs which adds to what I have been led to believe they are fiduciaries.
I am certainly willing to hear if there substantive info to the contrary.

 

[bw5972]

If you were starting out today- from scratch- which house would you choose? Vanguard. Fidelity? Or another? We all know it’s a major pain to switch everything once a lot of money is at stake. And also once a major mistake had been made, forgiveness is hard to come by. So assuming no prior negative baggage- which house wins for current and future business?

I have been an E*Trade customer for many years. I have looked into Vangard and Fido every few years but as yet have found no compelling reason to change.

 

[GrayHare]

I have been an E*Trade customer for many years. I have looked into Vangard and Fido every few years but as yet have found no compelling reason to change.

You might when you try to withdraw some money, at least if your experience is like mine.

 

[bw5972]

You might when you try to withdraw some money, at least if your experience is like mine.

I make withdrawals all the time. Scheduled once a month and other transfers as needed. Never had an issue.