Tough dinner conversation with adult live-in daughter

[donheff]

I think she is being irresponsible and immature. That said, she may be suffering depression or stress. I don't envy young folks trapped in this nightmare. If I was in your situation I would struggle with how to approach it too. In my area, testing is readily available. I would try to have a rational conversation and set down rules. Maybe an agreement that, after an encounter like the ones she is planning, she agree to isolate from you from you for several days and get a test a few days after the encounter. If clear back to normal. If she refuses to even consider steps to protect you, time to live independently.

One thing you mentioned might throw a wrench in the works for me. You said she and your wife are teachers working outside of the house. In a high positivity area, unless they are taking heroic measures, I would figure the game is up. In that case I would probably just accept the risk. If you are at very high risk for severe outcomes, maybe better for you to isolate from them and let them live their lives unfettered.

 

[Aerides]

She is on track to move out next year. Unfortunately a four year degree in education pays very little and Chicago is expensive. She is a hard worker and just started a new job that pays a little more. It was much easier to find an affordable apartment 40 years ago when I was younger.

The easiest way to solve some problems is to throw a bit of money at them - this sounds like one that could be, if you can. I kinda doubt she'd turn her nose up at first/last/security, or heck, first 6 months rent.

 

[Vincenzo Corleone]

I'm saddened to hear that your adult daughter doesn't have any concern for her parents' well-being.

I understand that she can't swing it financially to move out on her own yet. Someone else mentioned that she should consider moving somewhere with roommates to share the financial burden. I think that's an excellent idea. If that turns out not to be a viable solution (I couldn't understand why it wouldn't be), would you be able to temporarily contribute some money monthly towards her rent? Maybe make it a loan that she'd pay back whenever she could? An apartment, or maybe one of those Extended Stay motels? She'd pay whatever she'd be able to and you would cover the rest? At least until Covid is no longer the threat it is.

 

[gerntz]

i have an adult [kid] living at home who is saving aggressively for a townhouse. I live in chicagoland as well. Il is in the top 5 states for new cases all the time.

She is endangering both your lives and maybe if the virus doesn't kill you or your wife it will just permanently damage some of your organs with the lungs being the most common one. Those are life-changing issues.

She is in your house. 100% your rules. She is incredibly selfish. She is young with many decades ahead to do fun things. She either needs to restrict her activities or temporarily (6 months) move in with another friend her own age ... Sharing rent or whatever. If you have to help with some expenses then that is what i'd do.

Also, i'd have your wife and her regularly use a pulse oximeter fingertip and take their temperature. The sooner things are caught the better.

This forum is not only typically older but also a lean a particular political direction which could also then lean their opinion of the dangers of coronavirus. Many topics and discussions back up these observations.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

^^^this

^^^^^^ this !!!

 

[spncity]

The easiest way to solve some problems is to throw a bit of money at them - this sounds like one that could be, if you can. I kinda doubt she'd turn her nose up at first/last/security, or heck, first 6 months rent.

Not a bad idea. If she gets a roommate, she can make it last 12 months.

 

[Rex]

I think you have two issues and they are not related......

Issue #1....Fear of Corona Virus....According to the CDC, the survival rate for folks 69 or lower is 99%.....You certainly need to make your own decision on that but not sure that means no-one in your home can socialize....Again, your decision but check out the science.

Issue #2....Daughter living w/you.....That's a tough one and if it is your house, it's your rules. This may be the time for your daughter to decide to move on.....

I'd work thru them as two issues.

Good luck...both issues are tough and there is no right answer...just decisions.

 

[O2Bfree]

Your daughter is relatively young and lacks life experience. She's possibly still believing the personal myth that really bad things don't happen in her world. That's a hard one to outgrow, especially when still living at home at age 26. You certainly have the right to protect yourself and your wife from that attitude.

I agree with other posters who suggest that she either follow your rules or move out temporarily at least.

 

[ratface]

I read every post and consider them relative to our circumstances. Many good thoughts and several I had not considered. I feel there are workable solutions. I had not considered depression and will be more alert for signs but this young woman is generally stable. Fear of coronavirus is also very real, not so much the death part of it but the debilitating lingering effects are real for a small percentage of folks and can have some serious consequences. Like almost everything else in life it's a risk/assessment dilemma but this one can be deadly.

I can afford to help her with expenses but she will be able to make it with her new job. She has always wanted to do this on her own and I don't want to take that away from her. Her brother has been quite successful and she strives to follow. We have discussed room mates often but it is not so easy, many of her college friends have moved out of state or married and only a small core remain. She has approached a couple of friends but they were not ready. Moving in with a complete stranger is questionable. She is on track to move out beginning next year and I would like to see that happen of her own accord.

It's tough to be a single 26 year old woman during a pandemic living with your parents. As you can imagine dating is not so easy anymore. She has a small core of friends who are learning how to socialize without public venues. I don't see it as a right and wrong issue as we have discussed here. It will be a stressful time until a vaccine is found.

 

[ERD50]

She is on track to move out next year. Unfortunately a four year degree in education pays very little and Chicago is expensive. She is a hard worker and just started a new job that pays a little more. It was much easier to find an affordable apartment 40 years ago when I was younger. ...

I agree with the others - your house, your rules. And this could literally be a matter of life and death, not a "no loud music after 10:00, young lady".

I offer a compromise, based on the above that I bolded (sorry if already suggested, I didn't read every post) - Offer to pay the difference on rent that she would need until next year. She was going to move out, if it was only financials holding her back, and if you can afford it - why not?

eta: Just saw your recent post - OK, she wants to "do it on her own", fine (but she should respect your rules until she can), but since you would limit the financial aid to one year, it's different. A hand up, not a hand out.

Regardless, it is disappointing that she doesn't respect your wishes, especially in light of your past medical issues, but life isn't always fair/perfect.

-ERD50

 

[OldShooter]

... Like almost everything else in life it's a risk/assessment dilemma but this one can be deadly. ...

One of the things I learned to watch for as a manager is situations where the benefit goes one place and the cost goes another. In these situations it is almost inevitable that bad decisions get made.

As an example I recently looked at a small portfolio where the nonprofit had, for political reasons, hired a non-fiduciary FA. That guy has been feathering his own nest by selling them load funds with 12b1 fees. $4M worth! Benefit: FA's wallet. Cost: Bad investment for the nonprofit. My estimate was that this guy is costing them $60K+/year.

@ratface, I think you are in this kind of a situation. DD daughter gets the benefits of a very social lifestyle at near-zero risk/cost for herself. You get none of the benefits but the potential cost is your and/or DW's life. Pretty big stakes! I don't know how you make her understand that, but until you do the awful situation will continue.

 

[sheehs1]

ratface..this is a tough one. My heart breaks for all the younger age groups whose lives have been upended by this pandemic. And now, Winter is on its way which may cause even more isolation for them (all of us).

One point of consideration that I have not seen yet in this thread: Even IF she moved out, you and your wife would still see her and she would still visit with you, right? Or If she moved out would you ban her from your home entirely until this is over?
Trying to assess the risk of a daughter who appears to be moderately socializing living with you versus one that doesn't and will visit and be around you anyway. Seems to me either way there is some element of risk involved.

I guess it depends on what makes you and your wife the most comfortable. Perhaps after socializing she will agree to 1) shower 2) take clothes off outside the home and then wash them 3) sanitize everything she can possibly can and 4) any other virus preventive measures you can think of.

 

[Chuckanut]

My daughter attended an outdoor bonfire with peers over the weekend. I voiced concern. This coming weekend she is planning a wine tasting with a small group of friends. Again, I voiced concern citing the sharing of glassware/wine in a group setting. She is also planning on attending an upcoming Halloween party. Again I relayed my concern. She says it's unfair and has to live her life and I argue that we have to hunker down for the next 6 months and protect each other. My heart breaks for her but feel her plans are endangering our family. I cannot get the gravity of the situation across to her. Has anyone else had this conversation with an adult child living at home and have any thoughts on how to best approach it.

Emphasis added.

She has to live her life. And you don't? And that is fair to you?
She seems to lack empathy for her parents and the situation that they are in. Perhaps you can offer to pay for a few counseling sessions.

Honestly, the corona virus has really brought the Crazy Makers to the surface.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/counseling-keys/201403/how-handle-crazymaker

Crazymaking is when a person sets you up to lose, as in the examples above: You’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t. You’re put in lose-lose situations, but too many games are being played for you to reason yourself out of it. There is no rhyme, reason, or emotional understanding with a crazymaker. Worse, when the behavior is stealthy and confusing, it becomes easy to feel crazy. It feels like you’re caught in a whirlwind of chaos, with the life force being sucked from you as you are manipulated with nonstop crazymaking tactics.

 

[Badger]

Fear of coronavirus is also very real, not so much the death part of it but the debilitating lingering effects are real for a small percentage of folks and can have some serious consequences. Like almost everything else in life it's a risk/assessment dilemma but this one can be deadly. You are absolutely correct! There is the chance that if your daughter continues to live at home you and your wife may not survive if she doesn't take your health concerns more seriously

I can afford to help her with expenses but she will be able to make it with her new job. Then it sounds like the solution if for her to move out now. Doesn't sound like a financial problem for her. She has always wanted to do this on her own and I don't want to take that away from her. . We have discussed room mates often but it is not so easy, many of her college friends have moved out of state or married and only a small core remain. She has approached a couple of friends but they were not ready. See previous comment. Why does she need a room mate? Moving in with a complete stranger is questionable. She is on track to move out beginning next year and I would like to see that happen of her own accord.

It's tough to be a single 26 year old woman during a pandemic living with your parents. As you can imagine dating is not so easy anymore. She has a small core of friends who are learning how to socialize without public venues. It is tough for everyone right now regardless of age. All those things are just as tough for the millions of people who are decades older than her. I understand wanting to protect your daughter but are you sure you aren't also making excuses for her and enabling the behavior. I don't see it as a right and wrong issue as we have discussed here. It will be a stressful time until a vaccine is found. Without a doubt.

Wish you, wife, and your daughter the best and hope you find a solution that works for all of you.


Cheers!

 

[Chuckanut]

I guess it depends on what makes you and your wife the most comfortable. Perhaps after socializing she will agree to 1) shower 2) take clothes off outside the home and then wash them 3) sanitize everything she can possibly can and 4) any other virus preventive measures you can think of.

It's a good idea as far as it goes. But does it go far enough?

The problem is that only helps if she did not get infected. The real danger is the asymptomatic person who sheds the virus to the more vulnerable. That can't be washed down the drain.

 

[mickj]

I think you have two issues and they are not related......

Issue #1....Fear of Corona Virus....According to the CDC, the survival rate for folks 69 or lower is 99%.....You certainly need to make your own decision on that but not sure that means no-one in your home can socialize....Again, your decision but check out the science.

Issue #2....Daughter living w/you.....That's a tough one and if it is your house, it's your rules. This may be the time for your daughter to decide to move on.....

I'd work thru them as two issues.

Good luck...both issues are tough and there is no right answer...just decisions.

Well written response, we have been going through this at our home as well. So much suffering all around. I wonder when the cost of quarantine/shutdown will be too much too bear. Suicide/depression/etc are very real costs.

Everyone here who piles on the daughter as if she is a horrible person are sure quick to judge.

 

[Chuckanut]

Oh, I just heard this from my doctor during my yearly 'Wellness Visit'.

27 year old grandson goes about his life partying, being in crowds and not bothering to social distance. Grandson gives Corona Virus to both sets up grandparents who are patients of my doctor. One grandparent in each set dies.

Your daughter should also think of this. While CV is unlikely to harm her very much, if it does, she will probably lose a good 60 years of life experiences. Old folks like you and me might lose 15 to 25 years max. Just a thought.

 

[Ian S]

As some others have suggested, a reasonable solution might be to financially assist her with moving into her own place since it would just be a case of implementing next year's plans a bit sooner.

Someone suggested that covid is no big risk for someone in their 60's. Actually, the death rate seems to be somewhere between 2 and 4% for someone in that age group and of course, it doesn't include those who wind up with long term or permanent organ damage. I'm in that age group and we are doing everything feasible to reduce our chances of acquiring this disease. We are getting too close to an effective vaccine and/or treatment to let our guard down now.

 

[CRLLS]

DS is a teacher and taught in Chicago high school system up until 3 years ago. He made it on his own there with a 2 room efficiency apartment in not the best part of town. It doesn't take a high paying job to do so.

However I don't really understand how she will be able to afford something early next year but not now. She will still be on the same salary. Maybe she has a large CC debt that needs to be paid off? Just wondering. The only $ difference I see then vs now might be being able to pay for a security deposit and the 1st month's rent. By living at home, I would hope that she would already have that saved. Has DD been taking some courses toward raising her teacher's income. Having a Maters Degree makes a difference.

 

[pacergal]

What a tough situation to be in.

Perhaps the discussion could be moved to risk/prevention vs reward(partying).
While she is living with you, your decisions rule. Life is hard for everyone right now. I am sure there are friends you wish to see also, but do not.

If she move out on her own in a few months, she most likely will do her own thing/party/etc.
What prevention measures will you and DW put in place if she wants to come visit?

The risk is real. Will you not see her, does she wear a mask in your house? Do you all wear masks inside? Do you only visit outside?
How do you choose to live your lives safely for the next several months?

 

[ivinsfan]

Maybe these type of discussions shouldn't occur at the dinner table..

I guess if I got accused of trying to kill my parents (as a couple of posters have said, not saying the OP said this) I might cry and quit eating as well.

We've only heard the OP's side of this discussion.

OP what do you want to happen here? Do you want your DD to go nowhere but school and home? Do you want her to move out? If she moves out, lives with roomies and socializes, do you plan to never see her until this is over? Maybe your DD will move out, her roomie will give her CV and she'll be one of the unlucky young people that doesn't make it. Maybe your DW with bring CV home from school and give it to your DD. The possibilities of bad outcomes here is endless. So so many posters here have piled on the DD.

Perhaps you could talk among the 3 of you asking her to skip the wine tasting for this week so you all can decide the best way to handle this problem. Some posters here went from condemning the DD for normal feelings about wanting to be with friends to someone worrying she was going to drive drunk.

You three all sound like normal people who love each other and hopefully you can work it out. Yes it's your home so you do get to decide ..

 

[pb4uski]

Just finished a rather unpleasant conversation with my 26 y/o daughter at the dinner table, she got up and tossed her food away and left the table crying. I'm heartbroken. We live in Illinois. Positivity rate is just above 5% and climbing everyday. It's evident things are getting worse. Our mayor was on TV yesterday begging folks to wear masks and wash hands. Information was presented about how most folks are getting infected by family members at home. My wife and I are in relatively good health at 61 and 62. Both my wife and daughter are school teachers to young children and currently work outside the home. I'm retired. We accept the circumstances given the precautions in place at the schools. My daughter attended an outdoor bonfire with peers over the weekend. I voiced concern. This coming weekend she is planning a wine tasting with a small group of friends. Again, I voiced concern citing the sharing of glassware/wine in a group setting. She is also planning on attending an upcoming Halloween party. Again I relayed my concern. She says it's unfair and has to live her life and I argue that we have to hunker down for the next 6 months and protect each other. My heart breaks for her but feel her plans are endangering our family. I cannot get the gravity of the situation across to her. Has anyone else had this conversation with an adult child living at home and have any thoughts on how to best approach it.

Your daughter is right... it is unfair... but it is what it is/the hand that we have been dealt and she needs to recognize that her behavior could cost youor her mom your life or a serious and costly illness that adversely affects your quality of life.

I do indeed feel sorry that many young people are being deprived of some of the fun that we got to enjoy at that age... but the reality is that hopefully it will only be for another year or so.

She has a choice to make... move out and continue with her plans to have fun with her friends but she'll need to limit contact with you and your DW... or curtail her fun with friends or do it virtually and continue to live at home.... until she makes a decision and moves out it needs to be the latter.

It seems to me that some of these gatherings that she wants to participate in could be done virtually... it's not the same but its better than nothing.

 

[Nemo2]

Where did this misconception that life is, or ever was, 'fair' come from anyway?

 

[ivinsfan]

Your daughter is right... it is unfair... but it is what it is/the hand that we have been dealt and she needs to recognize that her behavior could cost youor her mom your life or a serious and costly illness that adversely affects your quality of life.

I do indeed feel sorry that many young people are being deprived of some of the fun that we got to enjoy at that age... but the reality is that hopefully it will only be for another year or so.

She has a choice to make... move out and continue with her plans to have fun with her friends but she'll need to limit contact with you and your DW... or curtail her fun with friends or do it virtually and continue to live at home.... until she makes a decision and moves out it needs to be the latter.

It seems to me that some of these gatherings that she wants to participate in could be done virtually... it's not the same but its better than nothing.

The OP and several others have said 6 months and you are hoping for a year, but we don't know how long it will take..I think that's the part that is causing people such anxiety.

 

[audreyh1]

Where did this misconception that life is, or ever was, 'fair' come from anyway?

Frequent attitude of someone who hasn’t grown up yet.

 

[pb4uski]

The OP and several others have said 6 months and you are hoping for a year, but we don't know how long it will take..I think that's the part that is causing people such anxiety.

I don't see how long this lasts as impact what is prudent to do today.