California Fires

[cbo111]

So just got off the phone with sister in Windsor, CA. She was calling from her car with her dog and most important belongings. Her entire town was ordered to evacuate this afternoon no later that 4:00pm. She was grocery shopping when her emergency code went off, along with about a hundred other shoppers. Windsor is not in the mountains, but is in wine country, Sonoma county. Winds are expected to be 70mph+ and the Kincaid fire has a town of 27K people square in it's sights. This is the second year in a row she has had to evacuate for fires. Back in 2017 some of you might recall the The Tubbs Fire, which was a destructive wildfire that just wiped out entire neighborhoods in Santa Rosa just to the south of Windsor. Check out the daunting videos on YouTube showing the aftermath, they look like Hiroshima.
I grew up in NorCal and simply do not recall the constant annual carnage of fires that seem to be the norm now. And these towns were always there, so its not like they just built in some dangerous mountainous area. For anyone reading this that questions the affects of climate change, I present ground zero.

 

[Pellice]

I really feel for the people in California. I can't imagine having fires all around me.

I am also interested in the rolling blackouts. I had no idea these things (total blackouts for extended periods) until this situation hit the news.

I am interested in how Californians are coping with multi-day blackouts, even if they are not evacuating. I have had a few experiences with brownouts (lower power availability) and storm-related blackouts (unplanned), but never with announced, official blackouts. I am really curious about how one prepares, and how one copes. Would love to hear about this.

 

[Teacher Terry]

We had Airbnb reservations to go to placerville a few weeks ago. We got a full refund because of the electricity being shut off. I can’t imagine trying to get out of there during a fire. We went to Sacramento nstead since they have there own power company. I don’t remember California having this many fires 22 years ago when I first moved out here.

 

[Souschef]

I really feel for the people in California. I can't imagine having fires all around me.

I am also interested in the rolling blackouts. I had no idea these things (total blackouts for extended periods) until this situation hit the news.

I am interested in how Californians are coping with multi-day blackouts, even if they are not evacuating. I have had a few experiences with brownouts (lower power availability) and storm-related blackouts (unplanned), but never with announced, official blackouts. I am really curious about how one prepares, and how one copes. Would love to hear about this.

There is a PG&E website with maps of the area affected. Both my local Ace Hardware and Harbor Freight were out of generators. On one of the PG&E maps, it shows we are out of the blackout area, fortunately.
My dentist's receptionist is one of those areas, and she told me her husband was out looking for a generator. I wished him luck.

 

[Pellice]

Would business insurance cover something like this for Teacher Terry's Airbnb owners? That is, could they file a claim due to loss of business due to fire conditions beyond their control? Or maybe a better example would be a regular hotel - probably Airbnb owners either can not or would not purchase that kind of insurance. In any case, my question stands - can business owners file a claim for loss of business in such a situation?

I am really interested in the nuts and bolts as to how these shutdowns work themselves out.

 

[Pellice]

There is a PG&E website with maps of the area affected. Both my local Ace Hardware and Harbor Freight were out of generators. On one of the PG&E maps, it shows we are out of the blackout area, fortunately.
My dentist's receptionist is one of those areas, and she told me her husband was out looking for a generator. I wished him luck.

Are large numbers of Californians using gas appliances? After Hurricane Sandy I continued to have hot water and stovetop cooking because I had gas, even though the electricity was out. Also, what is prioritized when a generator is used? I'm presuming the shutdowns are fairly brief, e.g. 2 days, so running out of fuel isn't an immediate concern, but still ... are people using the generators to just carry on as though nothing has changed, or are they using them to keep just the refrigerator and heat on, no television or other entertainment?

 

[TrvlBug]

I really feel for the people in California. I can't imagine having fires all around me.

I am also interested in the rolling blackouts. I had no idea these things (total blackouts for extended periods) until this situation hit the news.

I am interested in how Californians are coping with multi-day blackouts, even if they are not evacuating. I have had a few experiences with brownouts (lower power availability) and storm-related blackouts (unplanned), but never with announced, official blackouts. I am really curious about how one prepares, and how one copes. Would love to hear about this.

We are in the blackout area this time around. 5pm this afternoon. We escaped the one about a week ago by 1 mile. As we are in EQ country, we are always prepared, not too well though, for that catastrophe. We have lanterns and flashlights and plenty of fresh batteries to power them. We found our old battery powered radio but had to hunt down some more D batteries to power it. We have a POTS landline so hope that communication is available. During the last outage at our home (not a planned one) our cells stopped working, both wifi which was expected, but also the LTE. As this is the new norm, we really need to research and look for a reliable way to communicate/get info.

Luckily, we're only about 2-3 miles from power, so will be eating out the next couple of days . I'm printing out plenty of KenKens so if I get tired of reading, I'll have other entertainment . We'll get through this easily. We are so blessed that we live on the Peninsula and outside of the severe fire areas. Think Oakland Hills fire...we live in that type of environment and while we get very nervous this time of year, I can't imagine what the people living in the severe fire areas are going through.

 

[Souschef]

Power outages

Below is the link to the PG&E power outage maps
https://www.sce.com/safety/wildfire/psps
It is broken down by county and when you click on one of the links, it will download the outage map for that area

 

[swakyaby]

Thanks for the link—that’s very helpful.

 

[Another Reader]

Are large numbers of Californians using gas appliances? After Hurricane Sandy I continued to have hot water and stovetop cooking because I had gas, even though the electricity was out. Also, what is prioritized when a generator is used? I'm presuming the shutdowns are fairly brief, e.g. 2 days, so running out of fuel isn't an immediate concern, but still ... are people using the generators to just carry on as though nothing has changed, or are they using them to keep just the refrigerator and heat on, no television or other entertainment?

I have a gas cook top that can be lit with matches or a spark lighter. No problem boiling water for coffee by flashlight at 4 AM. The water heater requires electricity to operate the thermostat so you have about 24 hours of hot water. Our power was only off from midnight to 4 PM in the first shut off. The freezers were starting to defrost even though the doors were closed. The weather was not a factor - not hot during the day or really cold at night.

One neighbor a couple of doors down had a generator. It was noisy and he ran it most of the day until the power came back on. I haven't seen him yet to ask the wattage or what he powered with it.

The power in my subdivision is supposed to stay on this time while the one to the south is scheduled to be turned off. I don't understand this, because the subdivisions are small and strung along what used to be a country road. That subdivision is on the same power lines we are but further away from the source.

We will see if I am still here after 5 PM, the new shutoff time for my area.

ETA: I gassed up the SUV this morning. If this turns into a huge mess, I'm prepared to bug out. I have an empty rental with power and water and I'm stocked with supplies in the SUV. No blackouts in Arizona!

 

[cathy63]

I really feel for the people in California. I can't imagine having fires all around me.

I am also interested in the rolling blackouts. I had no idea these things (total blackouts for extended periods) until this situation hit the news.

I am interested in how Californians are coping with multi-day blackouts, even if they are not evacuating. I have had a few experiences with brownouts (lower power availability) and storm-related blackouts (unplanned), but never with announced, official blackouts. I am really curious about how one prepares, and how one copes. Would love to hear about this.

Most Californians don't have fires all around us. I suspect this is something that is very unclear to those watching the national news coverage, but the typical Californian (i.e. ~38.5M of the state's 39.5M residents) is just experiencing warm and windy weather with no threat of blackouts. Most of us also cannot see or smell any smoke from the fires.

I don't want to miminize the suffering of those who have had to evacuate due to the Kincade and Tick fires, which are the two that are actively burning new areas, because it is truly horrible for those who are affected. But just to provide some perspective, the overall number of people evacuating in California is a small fraction (5% to 8% depending on whose numbers you use) of the people who were under mandatory evacuation orders for Hurricane Dorian in the southeastern states last month.

As for how do people prepare for planned blackouts? It's really not any different than the unplanned variety except you have more time to stock up on food and batteries and buy propane for the camp stove. My Mom told me earlier today that her neighbors reminded her to park the car on the driveway so she wouldn't have to worry about getting the garage door open, which is good because she's probably not strong enough to lift it herself. I suggested she make sure her Kindle, iPad and cell phone are charged up. She's planning to go to church tonight and eat dinner at their annual crab feed -- they have gas stoves in the kitchen there, and I assume they can cook and serve by candle or lantern light. She may not even lose power, but if she does and it continues on more than a couple of nights, then she'll go stay at my sister's house, which is not in a blackout area.

 

[Mr. Tightwad]

It's clear and smoke free a few miles East of Los Angeles.

 

[stepford]

I've lived in CA for over 40 years now and October/November has always been fire season. We do seem to have them more frequently now, but population has also encroached more on mountainous wooded areas over that time.

I imagine it's a combination of climate change, aging infrastructure and development, but the bottom line is that I knew to be ready for fire in CA 40 years ago and that hasn't really changed.

PS. For those into CA geography, fire in SoCal usually runs with the Santa Ana wind from NE to SW. Thus those living on the SW edge of wild land are often the most vulnerable to fire. I realized this 30+ years ago when I bought my house on the edge of a fuel heavy county park - but on the East and NE edge of the park. That park has burned - most recently in last year's Hill fire, but the Santa Ana winds always push the fire away from me. My location is not without risk, but risk depends A LOT on your location with respect to fuel loads. I'd never buy a house in CA on the downwind end of open brush or wooded terrain.

 

[RobbieB]

The reports or our demise are exaggerated.

 

[Winemaker]

Our friends/suppliers in Napa and Suisun Valley have been plagued with the power blackouts. You farm all year and at harvest time, you have no power to refrigerate, operate, separate, shower, heat water, cook or otherwise. Not sure what the answer is, but the current/past decisions have been inadequate. Yes, we are talking about farming a luxury product, but those workers depend on those harvests to sustain their lifestyle.

 

[GrayHare]

Increase the CA electricity price enough to pay for moving the transmission lines underground. Won't stop all the fires but will stop those started by electricity.

 

[mh]

I really feel for the people in California. I can't imagine having fires all around me.

I am also interested in the rolling blackouts. I had no idea these things (total blackouts for extended periods) until this situation hit the news.

I am interested in how Californians are coping with multi-day blackouts, even if they are not evacuating. I have had a few experiences with brownouts (lower power availability) and storm-related blackouts (unplanned), but never with announced, official blackouts. I am really curious about how one prepares, and how one copes. Would love to hear about this.

I think some of it ( not all i’m sure ) is that there are a lot more houses out in the outskirts of populated areas that are much more susceptible to being a problem when fires start up

 

[Another Reader]

The mandatory evacuation zone has for the Kincade fire in Sonoma County has just been expanded all the way to the coast. Now 89,000 people under mandatory evacuation. The implication is that the winds, which are forecast with gusts up to 80 mph, can move the fire 35 miles west southwest in a couple of hours. Meanwhile, the power is being shut off throughout Sonoma County. Lots of fun evacuating hilly rural areas and small towns in the dark.

Tomorrow morning CalFIRE will either look very smart or very wrong.

 

[Sunset]

After having seen some videos online of people driving out of fires, I would err on the side of caution.
Imagine how hard it is for someone at CalFire to make that decision to order evacuation or not order it.
No matter what happens, people will be mad.

 

[rk911]

There is a PG&E website with maps of the area affected. Both my local Ace Hardware and Harbor Freight were out of generators. On one of the PG&E maps, it shows we are out of the blackout area, fortunately.
My dentist's receptionist is one of those areas, and she told me her husband was out looking for a generator. I wished him luck.

sounds like a ready-made market for automatic LP residential standby generators.

 

[Senator]

sounds like a ready-made market for automatic LP residential standby generators.

Some CA cities have banned the use of natural gas. I am not sure if it applies to LP.

 

[stepford]

Well, things have gotten more exciting in the FIRE movement in my neck of the woods. The Easy Fire started a few hours ago and is now about 3 miles NE - UPwind of me (i.e. the bad direction). As I mentioned earlier in the thread my house is on the NE edge of open space with suburban development to the NE of me so there aren't any fuel loads (other than lots of houses) between me and the fire. Still 40+ mph winds blowing from the fire toward my house will make for a stressful day.

I've played this game with fire many times before (just part of living in this area) and think the odds of the fire reaching my neighborhood are quite low, though probably a 50/50 chance of being in a voluntary evacuation zone by later today. Still DW and I have packed the cars up preemptively and will be hanging around the house *alertly* all day.

While I was packing up the truck this morning a neighbor came by nonchalantly walking her dog. I told her she might want to keep an eye on the fire and have a go bag ready. She was totally shocked. Nobody else in the neighborhood seems to be packing so maybe we're the silly stressed out ones. Or maybe this is just the mellow SoCal vibe in action.

Happy trails from FIRE land...

 

[rk911]

Well, things have gotten more exciting in the FIRE movement in my neck of the woods. The Easy Fire started a few hours ago and is now about 3 miles NE - UPwind of me (i.e. the bad direction). As I mentioned earlier in the thread my house is on the NE edge of open space with suburban development to the NE of me so there aren't any fuel loads (other than lots of houses) between me and the fire. Still 40+ mph winds blowing from the fire toward my house will make for a stressful day.

I've played this game with fire many times before (just part of living in this area) and think the odds of the fire reaching my neighborhood are quite low, though probably a 50/50 chance of being in a voluntary evacuation zone by later today. Still DW and I have packed the cars up preemptively and will be hanging around the house *alertly* all day.

While I was packing up the truck this morning a neighbor came by nonchalantly walking her dog. I told her she might want to keep an eye on the fire and have a go bag ready. She was totally shocked. Nobody else in the neighborhood seems to be packing so maybe we're the silly stressed out ones. Or maybe this is just the mellow SoCal vibe in action.

Happy trails from FIRE land...

your post reminds me of the fable..The Ant & The Grasshopper. nothing wrong with being prepared. my BIL lives in San Jose where PG&E keeps threatening to kill his power. been encouraging him to prepare...batteries, flashlights, keep cellphone charged, keep car fueled, cash in hand, yadda yadda. so far he has some interest but not much.

 

[MichaelB]

Well, things have gotten more exciting in the FIRE movement in my neck of the woods. The Easy Fire started a few hours ago and is now about 3 miles NE - UPwind of me (i.e. the bad direction). As I mentioned earlier in the thread my house is on the NE edge of open space with suburban development to the NE of me so there aren't any fuel loads (other than lots of houses) between me and the fire. Still 40+ mph winds blowing from the fire toward my house will make for a stressful day.

I've played this game with fire many times before (just part of living in this area) and think the odds of the fire reaching my neighborhood are quite low, though probably a 50/50 chance of being in a voluntary evacuation zone by later today. Still DW and I have packed the cars up preemptively and will be hanging around the house *alertly* all day.

While I was packing up the truck this morning a neighbor came by nonchalantly walking her dog. I told her she might want to keep an eye on the fire and have a go bag ready. She was totally shocked. Nobody else in the neighborhood seems to be packing so maybe we're the silly stressed out ones. Or maybe this is just the mellow SoCal vibe in action.

Happy trails from FIRE land...

Hope you stay out of harms way, and your neighbors come to their senses before it’s too late.

 

[Spock]

There was a recent article regarding the preemptive blackouts that was driving a booming business expansion for Generac (maker of home standby and portable generators).


Other news articles have PG&E stating the preemptive blackouts would be required for another 10 years before all of the infrastructure (either new lines or vegetation cutting) was able to withstand the "high" winds. Based on that I'd expect UHaul and real estate outside of the PG&E service area to be going up too.