Electric Vehicles - Models Discussion

[Zathras]

I still would like to know what percentage of EVs are regularly charged at these commercial chargers and how often.

How many time on average will they go to these chargers?

But sure, on paper, when you buy, you want to have the most-widely supported plug on your expensive vehicle purchase.

A year or so ago I had a chance to see the estimated miles charge on SuperChargers compared with a fleet mileage estimate.
This led to about 12% of miles being charged on Tesla superchargers.

Now, “regularly charged” at superchargers is probably lower, as more miles are piled on during trips (trips are the only time we ever needed to use them). So the 12% of miles probably translates to 6%-8% of trips?

This is all estimates and guesses though. Best I can offer right now

 

[ken830]

I still would like to know what percentage of EVs are regularly charged at these commercial chargers and how often.

How many time on average will they go to these chargers?

But sure, on paper, when you buy, you want to have the most-widely supported plug on your expensive vehicle purchase.

Here's the 1-year charge statistics for my Model X averaging 312Wh/mi. The at-home costs aren't correct as it assumes 28¢/kWh but I pay a bit less than that. This is about 15,000 miles. My Model 3 saw almost no miles this year, but the average on that car is just around 200Wh/mi.

 

[audreyh1]

You can set your home electricity kWh price. Ours is 15c and I set it to that.

 

[Christine]

Perhaps this list can help any of you having trouble deciding on which Model?

From this page: https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/tax2023.shtml

 

[aja8888]

I was at our local Ford dealer yesterday to look at a Maverick pickup they had in stock (not the hybrid model) and inquired about the hybrid. The sales manager said they have none in the pipeline and if I wanted one, I would have to order it.

I really don't get why these are so hard to get, seeing the hybrid engine/battery/transmission in those is 10 years old, at least, and was used in the earlier small sedans. I mean this is not new tech.

Putting that aside, the sales manager showed me the Lightening F150 and the EV Mustang. They have quite a number of both units sitting on the lot and ready to sell, except there are few buyers. Both very expensive in relation to a Tesla or even my Bolt.

When is Ford going to get the message that the Maverick Hybrid is the one to make and sell, as many folks want a small truck (it doesn't feel that small) and the hybrid will bring 42 MPG around town?

No wonder these legacy auto companies are wallowing in their own swill, but have money for share buybacks to enrich upper management.

 

[Midpack]

^^^ Just do a search. Legacy auto is dependent on hundreds of suppliers they don’t own or control, who got hung out to dry during the pandemic. And they’re not going to repeat that mistake. And now car sales are softening. Supply chain is not a light switch, and battery production does not scale quickly or cheaply.

Still, the factory working overtime may be of little consolation to buyers who've opted for the hybrid version of the Maverick — the most popular powerplant — because a key component of that vehicle remains in short supply: the battery. Ford disclosed that 73% of Maverick orders were for hybrids, but the automaker was only capable of producing 35% of all Mavericks as hybrids.

“Capacity constraints on batteries for the hybrid continue to be a challenge,” Ford spokesperson Dawn McKenzie said to Green Car Reports.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/aut...mand-for-the-2023-maverick-hybrid/ar-AA1eBKk2

https://fordauthority.com/2023/06/2023-ford-maverick-hybrid-production-remains-constrained/

https://www.greencarreports.com/new...k-no-longer-starts-with-37-mpg-hybrid-version

 

[explanade]

Perhaps this list can help any of you having trouble deciding on which Model?

From this page: https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/tax2023.shtml

Useful page but it appears there's a VIN number that you can enter to verify.

Presumably the dealers will be only too happy to let you know if you can get the $7500 rebate at the point of purchase.

So they will have already adjusted the price or what they're willing to sell an EV at based on its rebate status.

 

[Midpack]

Perhaps this list can help any of you having trouble deciding on which Model?

A much shorter list than EVs eligible in 2023, for now?

 

[DallasGuy]

I was at our local Ford dealer yesterday to look at a Maverick pickup they had in stock (not the hybrid model) and inquired about the hybrid. The sales manager said they have none in the pipeline and if I wanted one, I would have to order it.

I really don't get why these are so hard to get, seeing the hybrid engine/battery/transmission in those is 10 years old, at least, and was used in the earlier small sedans. I mean this is not new tech.

Putting that aside, the sales manager showed me the Lightening F150 and the EV Mustang. They have quite a number of both units sitting on the lot and ready to sell, except there are few buyers. Both very expensive in relation to a Tesla or even my Bolt.

When is Ford going to get the message that the Maverick Hybrid is the one to make and sell, as many folks want a small truck (it doesn't feel that small) and the hybrid will bring 42 MPG around town?

No wonder these legacy auto companies are wallowing in their own swill, but have money for share buybacks to enrich upper management.

Before I bought my Chevy Bolt EUV, I was extremely interested in buying the Maverick hybrid but the wait to get one was very very long since it was in such high demand. It seems to me that Ford could have ramped up production on them and they would have sold in very large numbers. Over 40mpg for a small truck is amazing.

 

[ken830]

You can set your home electricity kWh price. Ours is 15c and I set it to that.

I wish it were that easy... there is peak, partial-peak, and off-peak (even though 99+% of my charging is off-peak, there are still some events where the vehicle wakes and triggers the EVSE and it pulls a few Wh here and there). Then there are weekday vs weekend (vs holidays) differences. Then the rates change between winter and summer. And the daylight savings time adjustment is off by two weeks on each end (follows the schedule before the Bush-era 4-week extension). And then my energy provider (PCE) is separate from my energy delivery (PG&E), which means that I am charged a certain amount for generation, then I am credited an amount for generation, and then I am charged again. There is no easy way to know exactly how much I pay per kWh ahead of time. And then there is a meter charge along with other fixed fees. Low-usage months result in much higher per kWh costs due to the overhead being spread out over fewer energy units... I do have a separate meter for the EV, so at least I don't have to deal with baseline usage, where the first set of kWh (determined by geographical location) is charged at a lower rate than subsequent usage.

 

[Ronstar]

I was at our local Ford dealer yesterday to look at a Maverick pickup they had in stock (not the hybrid model) and inquired about the hybrid. The sales manager said they have none in the pipeline and if I wanted one, I would have to order it.

I really don't get why these are so hard to get, seeing the hybrid engine/battery/transmission in those is 10 years old, at least, and was used in the earlier small sedans. I mean this is not new tech.

Putting that aside, the sales manager showed me the Lightening F150 and the EV Mustang. They have quite a number of both units sitting on the lot and ready to sell, except there are few buyers. Both very expensive in relation to a Tesla or even my Bolt.

When is Ford going to get the message that the Maverick Hybrid is the one to make and sell, as many folks want a small truck (it doesn't feel that small) and the hybrid will bring 42 MPG around town?

No wonder these legacy auto companies are wallowing in their own swill, but have money for share buybacks to enrich upper management.

I think that Ford fails to understand their customers. The F-150 and Mustang have each been around about 50 years. The customer base for these vehicles wants these vehicles in part due to the longevity of the brand. Many of these customers have owned previous F-150s or Mustangs. They don't want new technology. They want something that has passed the test of time.

The Maverick is new, and so is the customer base. A maverick buyer is far more apt to buy an electric or hybrid vehicle than a F-150 buyer.

This is in part why Tesla is a success. Tesla isn't old school. They have no long standing vehicles that customers reminisce about. People don't want a Tesla like the Teslas of 50 years ago, because they don't exist. Their customers expect something entirely new, and Tesla provides it.

 

[Christine]

A much shorter list than EVs eligible in 2023, for now?

The way I understand it the makers must submit their cars to this list themselves.


So more will be added. I know Tesla will add the new Cybertruck eventually.

 

[explanade]

I thought the VW ID.4s were made in the US.

It's all US manufacturers.

But if you lease, you can get $7500 in lease cash, depending on whether the manufacturer/dealer wants to pass it on?

 

[RetMD21]

I think that Ford fails to understand their customers. The F-150 and Mustang have each been around about 50 years. The customer base for these vehicles wants these vehicles in part due to the longevity of the brand. Many of these customers have owned previous F-150s or Mustangs. They don't want new technology. They want something that has passed the test of time.

The Maverick is new, and so is the customer base. A maverick buyer is far more apt to buy an electric or hybrid vehicle than a F-150 buyer.

Tims are changing and it's legitimately hard to keep up. The Maverick is much different than the one of 50 years ago but it isn't expensive and gets great gas mileage. The Mach-E is too expensive for what you get. Calling it a Mustang isn't fooling people. A local Ford salesman told me that the lower priced Lightnings are selling better than the expensive ones. Ford had a big waiting list and a shortage of batteries so they made of lot of fully optioned ones that now are hard to sell. I think they still have time to get it right.

 

[explanade]

Well GM Equinox has the headline number of starting at $30k when announced almost 2 years ago.

Now the starting price is $35k but the first Equinox units will be loaded ones so the average price will be more like $45k than $35k.


Then they will bring out the base models later.


They have to maximize transaction price on each unit since the base models and the loaded ones both use the same battery, carrying a big part of the cost of the vehicles.

 

[aja8888]

Tims are changing and it's legitimately hard to keep up. The Maverick is much different than the one of 50 years ago but it isn't expensive and gets great gas mileage. The Mach-E is too expensive for what you get. Calling it a Mustang isn't fooling people. A local Ford salesman told me that the lower priced Lightnings are selling better than the expensive ones. Ford had a big waiting list and a shortage of batteries so they made of lot of fully optioned ones that now are hard to sell. I think they still have time to get it right.

I'm considering gifting my new Bolt to my daughter that needs a commuter car. I have been talking to Ford dealers off and on all day and there are no Maverick hybrids available anywhere in the Houston area and they will special order you one with $1,000 down and no delivery date. Figure a year a couple of dealers quoted with no guarantee.

Even the non hybrid ones are difficult to locate.

 

[Christine]

I thought the VW ID.4s were made in the US.

It's all US manufacturers.

But if you lease, you can get $7500 in lease cash, depending on whether the manufacturer/dealer wants to pass it on?

I believe the batteries must be made in the US too. Or at least in a short list of other countries. China is not on that list. Which is why not all Tesla models qualify.

 

[ken830]

I'm considering gifting my new Bolt to my daughter that needs a commuter car.

I haven't looked into it myself, but maybe you should... Before you gift the car to your daughter, worth looking at something like keysavvy or similar to see if you/daughter can get the used EV tax credit by processing the transaction as a licensed-dealer sale.

 

[aja8888]

I haven't looked into it myself, but maybe you should... Before you gift the car to your daughter, worth looking at something like keysavvy or similar to see if you/daughter can get the used EV tax credit by processing the transaction as a licensed-dealer sale.

Thanks! I'll look into that before we do the swap (i'm going to take her 2014 Mustang).

 

[Midpack]

For those planning on a 2023 EV tax credit, I just got a look at the 2023 Form 8936 in TurboTax, and it's quite a bit different than the one dated Jan 2023 at irs.gov and earlier - so those may not serve as example/templates. But the language and guidance don't contradict anything we've read so it's just a matter of finalizing the form (not yet per Intuit) and filling in the blanks.

Form 8911 for home charging stations hasn't changed as far as I can tell, very easy.

 

[RetMD21]

I haven't looked into it myself, but maybe you should... Before you gift the car to your daughter, worth looking at something like keysavvy or similar to see if you/daughter can get the used EV tax credit by processing the transaction as a licensed-dealer sale.

The income limits are different for used cars, right?

 

[ken830]

The income limits are different for used cars, right?

Yeah. They're half, I believe.

 

[aja8888]

For those planning on a 2023 EV tax credit, I just got a look at the 2023 Form 8936 in TurboTax, and it's quite a bit different than the one dated Jan 2023 at irs.gov and earlier - so those may not serve as example/templates. But the language and guidance don't contradict anything we've read so it's just a matter of finalizing the form (not yet per Intuit) and filling in the blanks.

Form 8911 for home charging stations hasn't changed as far as I can tell, very easy.

H & R Block tax software says form 8936 won't be available in final for until 2/16.

 

[REWahoo]

Form 8911 for home charging stations hasn't changed as far as I can tell, very easy.

I'm p*ssed. H&R Block does NOT include Form 8911 in their software, not in the Deluxe version I purchased nor in their Premier version. That means I can't file electronically as I will have to manually include the form. Not being able to e-file will substantially delay the refund I will be getting due to the heat pump we purchased which qualifies for a $2,000 tax credit.

I see my choices are forking over ~$40 to buy TT or go ahead and use the HRB program to e-file without Form 8911, then file an amended return at a later date.

Other suggestions?

 

[aja8888]

I'm p*ssed. H&R Block does NOT include Form 8911 in their software, not in the Deluxe version I purchased nor in their Premier version. That means I can't file electronically as I will have to manually include the form. Not being able to e-file will substantially delay the refund I will be getting due to the heat pump we purchased which qualifies for a $2,000 tax credit.

I see my choices are forking over ~$40 to buy TT or go ahead and use the HRB program to e-file without Form 8911, then file an amended return at a later date.

Other suggestions?

That sucks, I didn't know they don't include the form. Is that the same form I will need for my 30% tax credit for the Emporia charger? (I have H&R too)