Are we creating "weak men"?

[mountainsoft]

When I was a kid, I used a pen to write an paper and licked an envelop and stamp and had to walk outside to drop in the mailbox. That was character building to be a real man.

Well "I" had to ride my bike to the local high school to collect bottles out of the garbage cans that I could turn in for change. Then ride to the post office to buy a stamp (9 cents at the time I think) with my hard earned coins. Of course, I always made sure I had some extra change to buy a piece of candy.

 

[Car-Guy]

Well "I" had to ride my bike to the local high school to collect bottles out of the garbage cans that I could turn in for change. Then ride to the post office to buy a stamp (9 cents at the time I think) with my hard earned coins. Of course, I always made sure I had some extra change to buy a piece of candy.

You had a bike! I had to walk to collect my pop bottles.



Oh, and I remember stamps were 4 cents when I started using the US mail...

 

[Sunset]

But she successfully made a career out of it, no?

Yes, that is why I said "publicly looks like "

As many people don't understand she makes a LOT of money from all her wild spending and actions that kept her in the public eye.

 

[REWahoo]

Enough already...

 

[mountainsoft]

I have also heard people talk about inheritances they are counting on, almost as if they are "entitled to it"

I inherited about $15K from my dad when he died. At the time that was enough to put a down payment on our property and have a septic installed. It wasn't much, but it made a big difference in our life trajectory.

It is unlikely that we will receive any other inheritances. My mom lives in assisted living and will most likely spend every dime she has before she dies. My mother-in-law may leave a little behind, but with eight kids it won't amount to much by the time bills are paid and the remainder is distributed evenly.

I certainly never expected or planned for any kind of inheritance.

 

[Sunset]

..........

You were lucky, my dad was a hard working WWII vet that raised and supported his family in a lower middle class neighborhood but he couldn't change a light bulb without breaking something else. Where I got my mechanical interest and skills is a mystery.

But to the OP's question: Are we creating "weak men"? (and women)

Generally speaking, in many ways. Yes! Fortunately there are still some exceptions.

Similar situation, my Dad couldn't fix anything.
I think that is what forced me to become mechanically interested and develop my fixing/diy skills.
I couldn't ask Dad to do for me.

He also sold me his old car for $300 when be bought a new one.
A week later the Tranny went out as the reverse band was slipping, so I could only drive forward .
I had to get it fixed in a shop as that was too much for me.
But I did repaint the car after fixing/patching the rust holes.
I painted it with a gallon of rustoleum paint and a paint roller

 

[target2019]

Guess it depends if you want to prepare your kids for the future or your past.

 

[SnowballCamper]

The qualities of independence and resilience appear to be intrinsic to each individual, not tied to any particular economic circumstances or any particular time in history. My young wife taught for 30 years and had the opportunity to observe thousands of children, and she and I had this discussion many times.

Yes, there are parents who have both the economic means and the parenting style to cushion their children against any and all life setbacks. Initially, I would have thought that would produce weaker children, but there were many of my wife's students raised in those circumstances who became strong, independent and resilient adults. Conversely, there were some of her students who came from the poor end of town, whose parents had neither the money nor the time to coddle them. I would have expected that the struggles they experienced would have made them tougher and more likely to push on to success, and that certainly was true for some. But others appeared so beaten down by life that they could not imagine anything better and were passively accepting of deprivation and misery.

In short, there was no particular way to tell how the students would end up merely by observing their parents' economic circumstances or even parenting styles. Equally, there is really no way to generalize to particular generations. There have always been rich and poor homes, struggling and comfortable ones, and demanding and lenient parents. And their children have turned out to have a wide range of independence and resilience.

+1 Well Said!

 

[ls99]

Nay to the rest who look like me... Some of us weren't blessed with attractive genes. I'm still trying to figure out what good genes I was blessed with (if any).

Some get to choose their parents well, others may not have been that astute.

 

[Walt34]

But I did repaint the car after fixing/patching the rust holes.
I painted it with a gallon of rustoleum paint and a paint roller

I was much more meticulous when I painted my car with Rustoleum. I used a brush. Even took off some of the chrome stuff so I wouldn't get paint on it.

For that effort I earned the sobriquet "Leonardo".

 

[W2R]

Like many women, I do appreciate masculinity and strong, independent, capable men! So, I'm all for whatever encourages those traits.

I think it's really hard for young men to foster these traits within themselves presently, in comparison with how it was in our day. Just the opportunity to work part time pumping gas after school, was not that uncommon for boys when I was in high school.

 

[yhoomajor]

It all boils down to how much fire is burning in your belly!

Most newer generation of Americans (not all) have been raised in relatively luxurious lifestyle. While politicians talk about hunger in US.. I have never seen a single hungry American in US since I came to this country in mid-late 90s. Those who are... are mostly related to mental health issues (sadly).

So there is no fire burning in belly of most folks today. They are busy watching Netflix, being wokie, "Food comes from grocery store" kind.

There is still innovation in US. Tiny bit native, but also due to folks who come here from outside with fire in their belly (like Elon Musk, Indians, Chinese and so on).

But its not all bad news. History is littered with civilizations that peaked after a sense of contentment & entitlement and then being taken over by other civilizations that were not so content. So the good news is US does great bit of marketing via its media outlets. Making all those Muskies, Indians & Chinese to come here and do the hard work. Its a mirage they follow.. but that enables the cycle to continue. SO a sea of "weak men" is replenished with men with fire in their belly.

 

[youbet]

There has to be a cure for those weaklings!




https://media.istockphoto.com/vecto...d-onto-skinny-man-at-beach-vector-id535887859

 

[athena53]

By the time you're dead, you should realize what kind of children you've raised.

You're not likely to be leaving your fortune to "kids". They'll probably be in their 50's to 70's by the time you're taking a dirt nap.

I agree. My grandparents were all poor. Paternal grandparents came from large families where the sons had to quit school early to support the family. Maternal grandparents raised 5 kids in the great depression. Maternal grandpa started college but had to quit when he couldn't stay awake in class because he was working as a streetcar conductor at night. Mom, Dad and their total of 5 siblings all grew up and led productive lives. Mom's brothers included a Ph.D and an MD. Mom and Dad paid for my 4 siblings and me to go to college. All of us have advanced degrees or respected professional credentials (PE, CPA).

OUR children are also doing well- no one raking in millions or setting the world on fire but all supporting themselves with good jobs.

So no, being raised in good times is not a recipe for sloth in the next generation although it can happen. Some of us carry it forward and pass those values on to our children.

 

[ExPatKiwi]

It's not the weak men thing that worries me but the FIRE movement. Let me explain as I'm seeing it first-hand at work, many have saved in their 401ks and have pensions and are now retiring early between the ages of 55 and 60 based on the market returns. If you look at the performance of the stock market the last 20 or so years it now provides a better annual return than working. This creates a feedback loop invest watch investments rocket up and retire early living off the investment returns. If everyone does this who will want to work and what does it do to economic growth.



The more I think about the Federal government could solve all it's social programs issues by simple default index investing for every citizen in the social security and medicare programs. The growth would way out the returns from the treasury IOUs it currently invests in.

 

[razztazz]

If you look at the performance of the stock market the last 20 or so years it now provides a better annual return than working. This creates a feedback loop invest watch investments rocket up and retire early living off the investment returns.
....
The more I think about the Federal government could solve all it's social programs issues by simple default index investing for every citizen in the social security and medicare programs.

Everybody owns everybody's everything. Finally, a socialism that works.

If everyone does this who will want to work and what does it do to economic growth.

How many work-free billionaires can capitalism sustain?

I'd give it a try but I suspect there's a downside to it.

 

[tmm99]

Now or in the past, if you were handed everything and you never had to try hard, you would become a weak person IMO. My mom says people nowadays break easily because their lives have been too easy. (She thinks existential crises only exist in the modern world. People in the old days were too busy just trying to survive and put food on the table, so they had no time to be worried about the purpose of life, etc.)

I had a cushy life financially until I was out of my parent's nest. I complained to my mom and she said something like this - "You don't need to buy furniture when you don't have money. Find a cardboard box and put it upside down and you now have a table." She had no intention of helping me out. What she said was kind of a slap in my face but it definitely woke me up. I'm glad she talked to me like that. I actually felt stronger. I was like "Why the hell not? I can do this!"

I wonder how many people talk like that to their kids nowadays...

 

[frayne]

"Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times."

I think this has been the case with all civilizations since time began. Maybe not all that noticeable in the here and now but historical speaking, it has been the case.

 

[tmm99]

Money does funny things to people. I have chosen not to talk about money/wealth specifics with friends and family. I have noticed that when certain friends know specifics about other friends, judgements arise... "Oh, he can pick up the bill, he can afford it",

I would hate that, with a passion!

 

[Starsky]

A generation who is more dependent on their parent's success than ever before is not evidence of "weak men"; it is a by-product of the world we created for them. All of us in our pension-funded ERs and $ Million homes isn't something most of them will be able to earn at without lots of help and good fortune. They start out in a deep hole.
We made it this way. We love it this way. We own it. I just pray they can fix it.

 

[DawgMan]

Jumping back into the fray here. Frankly, cannot argue with many of the comments. At the risk of sounding "political", although I would just call it patriotism, I believe we STILL live in the most opportunistic country on the planet. Those who want to work still have the same opportunities we had as young adults. Its still a choice, and we are fortunate to have a choice. Are there new/different obstacles? You bet. But, there were obstacles when we were younger as well. IMHO, the constant bombardment of 24/7 media sources pushing their agendas (regardless of what side you are on) taints the water, especially for the younger folks. When entitlement sets into the mindset of the next generation as opposed to the merits of hard work, that is when I believe we become lost as a country.

Just my opinion...

 

[beernutzbob]

"Children; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. They no longer rise when elders enter the room, they contradict their parents and tyrannize their teachers. Children are now tyrants.”

Socrates, circa 470BC.

 

[Amethyst]

Agree...

We did some bathroom renovations in our previous home. The contractor was a local man, with ties through his wife to the Hispanic community. Many of the skilled techs were Hispanic immigrants with green cards.

I chatted with our tile setter, who said he recognized me from when he'd first arrived in our state and was mowing lawns, including our neighbor's. Through the church, he met our contractor, who offered him an apprenticeship with a skilled tile setter. He was now a full-fledged tile setter.

Meanwhile, he became a U.S. citizen and his next big step was going to be owning his own tile business. He was sure he could do it.

That's the American way. It is still with us.

Jumping back into the fray here. Frankly, cannot argue with many of the comments. At the risk of sounding "political", although I would just call it patriotism, I believe we STILL live in the most opportunistic country on the planet. .

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

A generation who is more dependent on their parent's success than ever before ...

Speaking as a boomer, I resemble that remark.

 

[RobbieB]

I think the economy will do just fine. I'm sure doing my share by blowing far more dough now than when I was working.