Are we creating "weak men"?

[DawgMan]

Spitballing here...

This is not meant to be a political post, but more of observation and perhaps something to ponder. I would suggest most here on this site are in a very small exceptional group, having LBYMs and having saved/invested to a point you are self sufficient and arguably "wealthy", at least at some relative level. I would also suggest that those of us here primarily in our 50's + will be the first generation to pass down some level of significant wealth to our heirs. Is this a good thing?? i wonder sometimes as I reflect on how I got where I am today and how to be the best steward with what I have been fortunate to accumulate.

Money does funny things to people. I have chosen not to talk about money/wealth specifics with friends and family. I have noticed that when certain friends know specifics about other friends, judgements arise... "Oh, he can pick up the bill, he can afford it", "why is he so cheap with all that money", etc. I have also heard people talk about inheritances they are counting on, almost as if they are "entitled to it" and sound like they can't wait for that person to die!

I grew up lower middle class, but was motivated by my life experiences to work hard/smart, and as an adult created enough wealth to be in the 1% club. I never once thought about or expected any kind of inheritance or included it in any part of my financial model. Despite living below our means, we have naturally provided for our family (4 grown kids) at levels of relative indulgences nether my wife or I had. While many of my friends were buying their 16 year olds new BMWs, I was buying my kids used $10K cars and felt like I was still spoiling them (I bought my first car from my sister for $150... 1973 Vega with bondo all over it and a burned out clutch!). My kids are now 24 - 31 and all have jobs, self sufficient and seem to have picked up the "right" values, but I still wonder sometimes if I have allowed them to experience enough "battle scars" for them to weather what life throws at them. Will a large perceived inheritance soften them further?

A saying from novelist G. Michael Hopf has always resonated with me...

"Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times."

Just wonder if most of us here are in the cycle of "Good times create weak men"? Hey, I suppose we all just do the best we can and hope it all works out...

 

[REWahoo]

This is one of the reasons I don't plan to leave much to our kids. No risk of influencing their strength or weakness.

Let the good times roll...

 

[Midpack]

Not sure it’s that simple. Globalization has changed the playing field since I built our nest egg. I had lots of interviews and job offers, I’m not sure it’s as easy today. I can’t prove it but I think it’s harder now than it was for most (not all) young adults.

I thought the thread was going to be about how much less resourceful today’s men are compared to our generation. My Dad taught me how to fix things, and I’ve carried that on with pride. And it’s much easier now - what I don’t know, I can find on YouTube more often than not. Most (not all) young men I know ‘pay a guy’ to fix even the simplest task of just toss and replace without even trying?

But more important, my first car was a yellow 1973 Vega GT that used a quart of oil with each tank of gas (aluminum block that had to have steel cylinder liners put in at 50K miles).

 

[DawgMan]

Not sure it’s that simple. Globalization has changed the playing field since I built our nest egg. I had lots of interviews and job offers, I’m not sure it’s as easy today. I can’t prove it but I think it’s harder now than it was for most (not all) young adults.

I thought the thread was going to be low much less today’s men are compared to our generation. My Dad taught me how to fix things, and I’ve carried that on with pride. What I don’t know, I can find on YouTube more often than not. Most (not all) young men I know ‘pay a guy’ to fix even the simplest task of just toss and replace.

But more important, my first car was a yellow 1973 Vega GT that used a quart of oil with each tank of gas (aluminum block that had to have steel cylinder liners put in at 50K miles).

Black racing stripe? Did I sell you my car??

 

[Midpack]

Black racing stripe? Did I sell you my car??

No stripe. It was a Vega GT, yellow with a (horrible) green interior! I got it in 1976, sold it in 1978…

 

[braumeister]

I can see the four Yorkshiremen showing up here soon.

 

[audreyh1]

I can see the four Yorkshiremen showing up here soon.

Seriously!

Every age has its challenges.

I don’t worry about stuff like this, I have my own life to live.

But if you expect to leave huge amounts of money to your kids, I guess you have to think about it.

You should leave all the money to just your daughters, LOL!

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

It's the women who are strong. The men are good-looking, though.

And all the children are above-average.

 

[audreyh1]

Yay to good looking men!

 

[38Chevy454]

Not sure it’s that simple. Globalization has changed the playing field since I built our nest egg. I had lots of interviews and job offers, I’m not sure it’s as easy today. I can’t prove it but I think it’s harder now than it was for most (not all) young adults.

I thought the thread was going to be about how much less resourceful today’s men are compared to our generation. My Dad taught me how to fix things, and I’ve carried that on with pride. And it’s much easier now - what I don’t know, I can find on YouTube more often than not. Most (not all) young men I know ‘pay a guy’ to fix even the simplest task of just toss and replace without even trying?

But more important, my first car was a yellow 1973 Vega GT that used a quart of oil with each tank of gas (aluminum block that had to have steel cylinder liners put in at 50K miles).

I took care of that oil burning Vega problem by swapping in a 350 V8. Built it as high school senior, drove it 6 years all through college and even the start of my engineer career. It was a decent car with the engine swap, helped I lived in CA where rust didn't eat the car away.


Back to the subject at hand on weak men. I think it is a little true, although OP's point has some merit. I know many very self sufficient young men. Also know of some very useless ones that barely know the correct end of a screwdriver to use. I think a lot has to do with how a person is raised up. If your life examples (parents, relatives, friends, siblings) are not self sufficient, then it is harder for a young person to learn and develop those skills and mindset. Call it product of your environment.


Just remember that for every weak man that has to pay for things to get done, there is another entrepreneurial man (or woman) that is happy to do the work and collect payment for services provided.

 

[Gumby]

The qualities of independence and resilience appear to be intrinsic to each individual, not tied to any particular economic circumstances or any particular time in history. My young wife taught for 30 years and had the opportunity to observe thousands of children, and she and I had this discussion many times.

Yes, there are parents who have both the economic means and the parenting style to cushion their children against any and all life setbacks. Initially, I would have thought that would produce weaker children, but there were many of my wife's students raised in those circumstances who became strong, independent and resilient adults. Conversely, there were some of her students who came from the poor end of town, whose parents had neither the money nor the time to coddle them. I would have expected that the struggles they experienced would have made them tougher and more likely to push on to success, and that certainly was true for some. But others appeared so beaten down by life that they could not imagine anything better and were passively accepting of deprivation and misery.

In short, there was no particular way to tell how the students would end up merely by observing their parents' economic circumstances or even parenting styles. Equally, there is really no way to generalize to particular generations. There have always been rich and poor homes, struggling and comfortable ones, and demanding and lenient parents. And their children have turned out to have a wide range of independence and resilience.

 

[MRG]

My dad thought I should go to his alma mater, the school of hard knocks. I went to work in a sawmill instead of college, builds character. Ten years later I got out of there on my own by working full time and going to school at night. The only thing I learned from this experience was my father was an azz. I sometimes wonder what I could have done with a proper education.

 

[Montecfo]

Not sure it’s that simple. Globalization has changed the playing field since I built our nest egg. I had lots of interviews and job offers, I’m not sure it’s as easy today. I can’t prove it but I think it’s harder now than it was for most (not all) young adults.

I thought the thread was going to be about how much less resourceful today’s men are compared to our generation. My Dad taught me how to fix things, and I’ve carried that on with pride. And it’s much easier now - what I don’t know, I can find on YouTube more often than not. Most (not all) young men I know ‘pay a guy’ to fix even the simplest task of just toss and replace without even trying?

But more important, my first car was a yellow 1973 Vega GT that used a quart of oil with each tank of gas (aluminum block that had to have steel cylinder liners put in at 50K miles).

Your car had pistons? hmmph. Luxury

sniff

 

[Markola]

“Life is suffering. Anyone who says differently is selling something.” Wesley, from The Princess Bride

 

[Sunset]

The qualities of independence and resilience appear to be intrinsic to each individual, not tied to any particular economic circumstances or any particular time in history. My young wife taught for 30 years and had the opportunity to observe thousands of children, and she and I had this discussion many times.

Yes, there are parents who have both the economic means and the parenting style to cushion their children against any and all life setbacks. Initially, I would have thought that would produce weaker children, but there were many of my wife's students raised in those circumstances who became strong, independent and resilient adults. Conversely, there were some of her students who came from the poor end of town, whose parents had neither the money nor the time to coddle them. I would have expected that the struggles they experienced would have made them tougher and more likely to push on to success, and that certainly was true for some. But others appeared so beaten down by life that they could not imagine anything better and were passively accepting of deprivation and misery.

In short, there was no particular way to tell how the students would end up merely by observing their parents' economic circumstances or even parenting styles. Equally, there is really no way to generalize to particular generations. There have always been rich and poor homes, struggling and comfortable ones, and demanding and lenient parents. And their children have turned out to have a wide range of independence and resilience.

+1

Perhaps it's just the extreme examples that stand out in our mind, like Paris Hilton, who publicly looks like a classic trust fund kid good at spending.

 

[old medic]

My dad thought I should go to his alma mater, the school of hard knocks. I went to work in a sawmill instead of college, builds character. Ten years later I got out of there on my own by working full time and going to school at night. The only thing I learned from this experience was my father was an azz. I sometimes wonder what I could have done with a proper education.

I think we may be Brothers.... LOL...
I'm thankful that I was raised, and still believe that a person learns nothing from being just given things, and appreciate stuff better if its earned. Our kids were brought up the same way, And we are now hoping to pass along the same to our Grandson, with hopes it sticks better than the " gets whatever he wants" from his parents and other grandparents. He's 9 and works whenever he's at our house to make cash to buy stuff... And when I say work.... he picks up brush and does some light trimming, splits and stacks firewood, even drives the tractor around and learning to use the backhoe. He helps with working in the garden and prepping stuff for canning and making jams and jellies. He's still fussing because we haven't gotten chickens back yet. We have a bank account for him, and at times he gets upset we wont pull money out for him to buy some toy... but he sometimes tells us to just put his made cash in the bank to save.

 

[Car-Guy]

Yay to good looking men!

I'm not sure I'd know one if I saw one... Just don't see the attraction,,,, AT ALL!

I thought the thread was going to be about how much less resourceful today’s men are compared to our generation. My Dad taught me how to fix things, and I’ve carried that on with pride.

You were lucky, my dad was a hard working WWII vet that raised and supported his family in a lower middle class neighborhood but he couldn't change a light bulb without breaking something else. Where I got my mechanical interest and skills is a mystery.



But to the OP's question: Are we creating "weak men"? (and women)

Generally speaking, in many ways. Yes! Fortunately there are still some exceptions.

 

[qwerty3656]

Not sure it’s that simple. Globalization has changed the playing field since I built our nest egg. I had lots of interviews and job offers, I’m not sure it’s as easy today. I can’t prove it but I think it’s harder now than it was for most (not all) young adults.

This is the issue today. There are so many young men today who did all the right things (studied hard got college degrees, etc) who cannot find a job in their field of study.

 

[audreyh1]

+1

Perhaps it's just the extreme examples that stand out in our mind, like Paris Hilton, who publicly looks like a classic trust fund kid good at spending.

But she successfully made a career out of it, no?

 

[MichaelB]

I think this whole problem began when we did away with child labor laws. Kids today have it too easy. Now get off my lawn!

 

[easysurfer]

When I was a kid, I used a pen to write an paper and licked an envelop and stamp and had to walk outside to drop in the mailbox. That was character building to be a real man.

Unlike now, a tap and swipe here and not getting up from the chair.

 

[GreenEggs]

By the time you're dead, you should realize what kind of children you've raised.

You're not likely to be leaving your fortune to "kids". They'll probably be in their 50's to 70's by the time you're taking a dirt nap.

One of my siblings had mental issues that forced our father to adjust his inheritance. It was a stressful & painful decision for him, but some people can be a danger to themselves and/or others if given the opportunities that large sums of money can provide.

Hopefully, those of you who have large estates will have your affairs in order well before your decline. Also, it is important to have the insight of providing as much guidance as possible for your heirs about how to manage what you've left them. Unless they have a background of working with money, real estate, etc. your gifts can be quite overwhelming, and managing it can have a steep learning curve.

 

[NW-Bound]

Are we creating "weak men"?

When I saw the thread title, I thought, "Uh oh, they are talking about me".

I often say here I can no longer handle the heat well, that I would die without AC. AC has become a life support to me. Yes, modern amenities have made me a "weak man".

I wish I could be stronger, but dare not try. What if I croak due to a heat stroke, and leave mucho SS money unclaimed, because I am still waiting for the age of 70?

 

[mountainsoft]

Yay to good looking men!

Nay to the rest who look like me... Some of us weren't blessed with attractive genes. I'm still trying to figure out what good genes I was blessed with (if any).

 

[youbet]

But she successfully made a career out of it, no?

Great observation audrey1 ! It seems these days that "popularity - notoriety" is a career in itself. Be it an athlete, an heir, a business person or whomever, getting your name to be familiar to the general population seems to be a frequent road to money.