Herd Immunity in the US out of Reach

[Aerides]

My immune system is very robust

What test did you take to find that out and what was the score?

 

[kjpliny]

Depends on how you define long term. I personally don't think we have gotten anywhere *close* to knowing what long term effects of the virus or vaccines could be.

When doing any kind of risk assessment, even with access to all available data, there will always be the consistent variable of "we don't know what we don't know."

Is there a possibility that these vaccines can cause long term organ damage or neurological issues in a small subset of people? We don't know. We do know, based on the existing VAERS data that some people have experienced adverse effects in the short term post vaccination, including blood clots, anaphylactic shock and even death. What are the risk factors and what could be the root cause?

Is there a possibility that enabling the body to recognize the Sars-CoV-2 spike protein could potentially interfere with future treatments that may be necessary to fight a variant or another type of deadly virus or pathogen? Impossible to know.

I'm not saying any of these risks are likely or particularly high for the general population, but we have to acknowledge that there are unknowns and prudent people should always consider this before making personal decisions affecting their health.

 

[Fermion]

But by that reasoning, maybe people who get the vaccine have a 50% less chance of getting lung cancer or something?

I mean you can come up with any guesses if you try hard enough.

 

[ivinsfan]

When doing any kind of risk assessment, even with access to all available data, there will always be the consistent variable of "we don't know what we don't know."

Is there a possibility that these vaccines can cause long term organ damage or neurological issues in a small subset of people? We don't know. We do know, based on the existing VAERS data that some people have experienced adverse effects in the short term post vaccination, including blood clots, anaphylactic shock and even death. What are the risk factors and what could be the root cause?

Is there a possibility that enabling the body to recognize the Sars-CoV-2 spike protein could potentially interfere with future treatments that may be necessary to fight a variant or another type of deadly virus or pathogen? Impossible to know.

I'm not saying any of these risks are likely or particularly high for the general population, but we have to acknowledge that there are unknowns and prudent people should always consider this before making personal decisions affecting their health.

Long term organ damage..oh my goodness, we get it you don't want one, but please quit making stuff up.

 

[Whisper66]

Depends on how you define long term. I personally don't think we have gotten anywhere *close* to knowing what long term effects of the virus or vaccines could be.

Yes, currently we just don’t know. “Experts” give their best thoughts on the matter but the data has not had time to develop yet. Heck, still studying possible short term impacts of the vaccine. Just recently, I read the Israelis are checking if some heat inflammation cases may be related to the vaccine. Doesn’t seem to impact a lot of people yet but it may be that people with specific characteristics are vulnerable. Again there is a lot of things we don’t know so I respect those who choose different paths.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middl...le-who-received-pfizer-covid-shot-2021-04-25/

 

[Whisper66]

For people who need to be out and about and exposed to the general population, I don't disagree. For now, our risks of coming across an infected person are extremely low since we are staying home and accepting no guests.

That's a fun way to live. Ever watch the Walking Dead, somehow they always get taken out by a zombie, no matter how careful they are.

Sounds like the way many folks even within our community here lived for a year or so until the vaccine finally got available. Seems do-oable for many if one wants to avoid unexpected effects of a new vaccine.

 

[kjpliny]

Long term organ damage..oh my goodness, we get it you don't want one, but please quit making stuff up.

Lot's of pharmaceuticals have later been pulled from the market after adverse long term affects have been recognized. It would be foolish to completely disregard the possibility, even if the risk may small.

 

[ivinsfan]

One of my Covid buddies has an 18 month old long hauler. Got it at three months. Developmentally delayed - still not talking - and lots of health problems that baffle the pediatricians. Never tested, so Covid is not considered. There are multiple support groups devoted to children with long Covid. Yeah, let's sentence small children to this living hell.

I'm not sure what you mean here but calling this suffering child a Covid long hauler just muddies the water and doesn't help anyone. Since there was no Covid test this sounds like a slowly developing genetic issue as much as it does Covid. I'll keep this poor family in my thoughts.



People everywhere are at risk for long haul Covid. You know who doesn't seem to be at risk for long haul Covid, fully vaccinated people. Based on some of the "reasoning" I'm seeing here we have a way to go to wake people up.

 

[Sunset]

It seems to me there is a simple solution -- pay people to get the vaccine. It might only take $100 per shot to get many people to take the vaccine. It would cost the government some money in the sort run but there would be a huge savings in the long run. At my mother's CCRC 95% of the staff got the vaccine after small bonuses were offered to those who got vaccinated. There are a few people who will not get the shot no matter what you offer them, but I think many people are just lazy and need a little incentive.

I think it would be better to pay people every year, who have already gotten the vaccine, and get the probable yearly boosters. Why not reward good for society behavior.

No sense in rewarding those who are not helping the common good.
People who waited and are not tempted by free donuts and travel to other countries could simply be waiting for bigger rewards.

 

[ivinsfan]

Lot's of pharmaceuticals have later been pulled from the market after adverse long term affects have been recognized. It would be foolish to completely disregard the possibility, even if the risk may small.

Look we are talking vaccines here, not drugs developed to treat certain conditions. Vaccines are truly one of the marvels of modern medicine and have saved millions of people from death and long term health misery.


Never mind you just stay at home if that works for you.

 

[ivinsfan]

Sounds like the way many folks even within our community here lived for a year or so until the vaccine finally got available. Seems do-oable for many if one wants to avoid unexpected effects of a new vaccine.

You do you, I'm in my late 60's and have GK and family I want to see.

 

[ivinsfan]

Yes, currently we just don’t know. “Experts” give their best thoughts on the matter but the data has not had time to develop yet. Heck, still studying possible short term impacts of the vaccine. Just recently, I read the Israelis are checking if some heat inflammation cases may be related to the vaccine. Doesn’t seem to impact a lot of people yet but it may be that people with specific characteristics are vulnerable. Again there is a lot of things we don’t know so I respect those who choose different paths.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middl...le-who-received-pfizer-covid-shot-2021-04-25/

Old "news" that has already been debunked.

 

[Fermion]

Lot's of pharmaceuticals have later been pulled from the market after adverse long term affects have been recognized. It would be foolish to completely disregard the possibility, even if the risk may small.

True, you can look at the risks, but then you can make a decision that the risk of developing serious long term health issues from COVID outweighs any risk of some hypothetical unknown long term adverse effect of the vaccine.

We KNOW there are serious health issues from getting COVID. We don't know of any serious adverse effects of the vaccine. There is no realistic way to protect yourself from getting COVID without a vaccine other than living in a cave and never going to get a cavity filled or a mammogram.

 

[kjpliny]

Ivinsfan - Your comments could be easily perceived as arrogant, unnecessary and condescending. If you read my comments carefully, you will see that I have not attacked anyone here or passed judgements on anyone's personal choices regarding their health. I hope you will one day come around to accepting that everyone has their own philosophical positions on life, perspectives on science, data and medical treatments, personal history and methods for weighing risks.

 

[ivinsfan]

Ivinsfan - Your overtly judgemental comments could be easily perceived as arrogant, unnecessary and condescending. If you read my comments carefully, you will see that I have not attacked anyone here or passed judgements on anyone's personal choices regarding their health. I hope you will one day come around to accepting that everyone has their own philosophical positions on life, perspectives on science, data and medical treatments, personal history and methods for weighing risks.

As long you stick to facts and don't try to scare people, we're good. My DH always tells people "you don't have to tell me why you did something" But once you start telling me stuff I can give you my opinion back. I get it you don't want to get vaccinated. You could have simply left it at that.

 

[Whisper66]

Old "news" that has already been debunked.

Doesn't appear "debunked" yet from what I'm reading. But assume it is. Blood clotting, heart inflammation are being studied and may get "debunked" ....... .. what will be the "new news" next week / month that no one expected to come because they disregard any possible long term effects. And maybe that "new news" will turn out to be a big problem. Just saying, we have lots of very confident folks here claiming one decision or another is the right one and being quite disrespectful to the decisions others have made with perfectly good reason. I choose not to be one of those people.

 

[ivinsfan]

I think it would be better to pay people every year, who have already gotten the vaccine, and get the probable yearly boosters. Why not reward good for society behavior.

No sense in rewarding those who are not helping the common good.
People who waited and are not tempted by free donuts and travel to other countries could simply be waiting for bigger rewards.

You do know the old saying "the squeaky wheel gets the grease"

 

[kjpliny]

Doesn't appear "debunked" yet from what I'm reading. But assume it is. Blood clotting, heart inflammation are being studied and may get "debunked" ....... .. what will be the "new news" next week / month that no one expected to come because they disregard any possible long term effects. And maybe that "new news" will turn out to be a big problem. Just saying, we have lots of very confident folks here claiming one decision or another is the right one and being quite disrespectful to the decisions others have made with perfectly good reason. I choose not to be one of those people.

Agree. These are personal medical decisions and this topic should not turn into a debate club item.

 

[tmm99]

Old "news" that has already been debunked.

Do you have a link for this? I would like to read it. Thanks!

 

[ivinsfan]

Do you have a link for this? I would like to read it. Thanks!

Read the link....

 

[tmm99]

Read the link....

I didn't see a link in your post?

 

[ivinsfan]

I didn't see a link in your post?

the reuters link on page 4

 

[Another Reader]

I'm not sure what you mean here but calling this suffering child a Covid long hauler just muddies the water and doesn't help anyone. Since there was no Covid test this sounds like a slowly developing genetic issue as much as it does Covid. I'll keep this poor family in my thoughts.



People everywhere are at risk for long haul Covid. You know who doesn't seem to be at risk for long haul Covid, fully vaccinated people. Based on some of the "reasoning" I'm seeing here we have a way to go to wake people up.

Dad brought it home from a business trip. He had it, mom had it and is a long hauler, grandma too. Baby got sick at the same time, in February 2020, no testing available. Dad recovered and has antibodies.

There are Facebook groups and others devoted to Long Covid kids. Search Twitter and Facebook. Kids are not exempt.

 

[ivinsfan]

Dad brought it home from a business trip. He had it, mom had it and is a long hauler, grandma too. Baby got sick at the same time, in February 2020, no testing available. Dad recovered and has antibodies.

There are Facebook groups and others devoted to Long Covid kids. Search Twitter and Facebook. Kids are not exempt.

No one is exempt we all know that...that's a sad story and that family is example as to why we need herd immunity hopefully through vaccine and not horrible experiences like this.



Sometimes you just have to take one (vaccine) for the team. It helps you and it can help others.

 

[RAE]

So you are convinced you can avoid having any novel virus invade your body for as long as it takes.

The risk of having this virus invade one's body is going to diminish with time, both due to people getting vaccinated, and people who have already had COVID (which is now estimated at over 120 million people, by the CDC). In some places around the country, we are already reaching a "tipping point", where there are enough people out there with immunity that the virus is having difficulty finding new hosts. If he has minimal/no contact with others, his chances of getting this virus are low, and will get much lower as time goes on. I'm not saying his decision is right or wrong...........only that it is a personal decision, and we all have the right to make personal decisions about what we put into our bodies and what we don't.