Contrast between real life and current economic news

[jollystomper]

We are seeing a generational shift on top of a demographic shift. I do not expect the older generation to adapt gracefully (I am 64 and count myself as older, but I do exclude myself from the unadaptable cohort).

Broadly, shortages have two solutions - decrease demand or increase supply. For labor, increasing supply means seriously addressing immigration, but that seems a bridge too far for our political process.

So demand for labor will need to shrink - marginal businesses collapse, and the remaining businesses do what they can to reduce the labor content of their products and services. Either way, things will change and people will complain. But then again, people complain when things are going well, so what is new?

I suspect one will see an increasing amount of automation being used in place of labor. One sees an increasing amount of automation being applied in areas of retail labor shortages, and I see that trend continuing.

 

[Scuba]

I suspect one will see an increasing amount of automation being used in place of labor. One sees an increasing amount of automation being applied in areas of retail labor shortages, and I see that trend continuing.

Agreed. Robots don’t strike, call in sick, steal, etc. when it becomes less expensive to deploy technology vs hire humans, businesses do it.

 

[Chuckanut]

Given that so many of the Big Name fast food joints are begging for workers and driving hourly pay above $15 an hour (the supposed goal for the minimum age in my area), I would think that more automation is a given.

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

Eh, I think there's a limit to how much technology can be introduced to the retail market. I use the self-service checkout at my local grocer all the time, but a growing number of customers are taking advantage of curbside pickup. I don't see robots running up and down the supermarket aisles filling grocery orders for some time -- especially while sharing the space with human shoppers.

Then there are the retail sectors where upselling is the norm. I'd expect a robotic car salesman would have poor results pitching ceramic paint coating or an extended warranty.

The next big advance in automation will probably be in shipping, with autonomous trucks. Big trucking companies are chronically short of drivers because they don't want to pay a decent wage. Self-driving trucks could go 24/7 with no worries about fatigue and could sit for hours or days before being loaded/unloaded. The issue of safety has to be addressed, but I sometimes feel unsafe now among the 18-wheelers on the Interstate.

 

[isisdave]

I got money, but you'll never see me at a coffee shop.

Me too. That's why I got money.

 

[target2019]

Self-checkout is a bottle-neck customers seem to rail against. Retail is just going that way for better or for worse.

In stores where customers have a cart and many items it gets worse.

 

[sweetana3]

I wonder how many more cashiers they could hire if they simply let them sit and changed the registers? Europe does this. Standing in one place all the shift eliminates many who simply cannot do it.

 

[Aerides]

Self-checkout is a bottle-neck customers seem to rail against. Retail is just going that way for better or for worse.

In stores where customers have a cart and many items it gets worse.

at a grocery store, where I have to key in the info for produce, it takes forever. I can't simply learn the top 20 four-digit codes like a cashier would in a day or 2.

Last week I was buying - per the name tag on the item section: "Green Onions/Chives"
So I had to find them at self checkout. Typed Green...nope. Typed Chives, nope. Typed Onions, and then swiped to the 2nd page of results and voila...

And another item rang up full price instead of sale. Had to flag over the helper who was already 3 deep in others trying to code for chives before she could come to me....

 

[ShokWaveRider]

at a grocery store, where I have to key in the info for produce, it takes forever. I can't simply learn the top 20 four-digit codes like a cashier would in a day or 2.

Never had a problem. At our Walmart, the only place I go with these self check out lanes, everything works great. Just type the first and rarely the second letter of an item and for the most part the selection is always there.

I personally prefer them, takes the old geriatric checker out of the equation, I could swear our Walmart only hires the over 60s, that is a good thing I suppose. There is still 1 (Yes just 1) full service checkout available if needed. I Still do not understand why they need greeters though, seems unnecessary.

 

[Fermion]

IIRC the last time I got coffee at McDonald's was in 2005, in Alabama when evacuating for Hurricane Katrina. Yes, the coffee was good. But I'm too much of a cheapskate to drink coffee anywhere but at home.

Even at Cafe Du Monde?

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

Never had a problem. At our Walmart, the only place I go with these self check out lanes, everything works great. Just type the first and rarely the second letter of an item and for the most part the selection is always there.

I personally prefer them, takes the old geriatric checker out of the equation, I could swear our Walmart only hires the over 60s, that is a good thing I suppose. There is still 1 (Yes just 1) full service checkout available if needed. I Still do not understand why they need greeters though, seems unnecessary.

In my area, most of the checkers are quite young. They often have to call over an asst manager to run beer or wine past the code reader. So they rarely know the codes of less-popular produce items ... and they're not likely to recognize whether an item registered the sale price or full retail. Generally speaking, I'm a better observer of stuff like that, which is another reason why I prefer the self-checkout.

When I was a kid the grocery clerks were unionized. The middle-aged lead clerk recognized all the regular customers and chatted a bit while ringing up purchases quickly and accurately. But that was in the day of the corner market, and my memory may be fogged with nostalgia.

 

[TheWizard]

I wonder how many more cashiers they could hire if they simply let them sit and changed the registers? Europe does this. Standing in one place all the shift eliminates many who simply cannot do it.

They sit at Aldi...

 

[ncbill]

One thing contributing to the staffing shortages that I haven’t seen mentioned is the large number of young people who still live at home or are being highly subsidized by parents. I know of several college grads who aren’t working in their field because they aren’t willing to commute, work the required hours, etc. There is no pressure on these kids because their parents don’t require them to pay rent, share in household expenses or give them a deadline to get a job.

When I went to college, I never even considered moving back home, nor did anyone I know. I didn’t expect to live by myself in a luxury apartment either. I got a decent 2 BR apartment and shared it with a co-worker. I realize housing prices have gone up a lot, but starting salaries have too.

It’s amazing how motivated people are to work when there aren’t any viable alternatives. When they don’t have to work because someone is covering their expenses, they are much pickier about what job is worthy of their talents.

My youngest is at home until late this year.

Graduated last May, but couldn't get a slot for their military job training (National Guard) until this fall, which will run take several months, then they're off to work just a few days later in spring 2023.

Couldn't find an employer willing to hire them right after graduation because of the above...so much for all the "we support the military" moonshine most companies put out.

 

[omni550]

The next big advance in automation will probably be in shipping, with autonomous trucks. Big trucking companies are chronically short of drivers because they don't want to pay a decent wage. Self-driving trucks could go 24/7 with no worries about fatigue and could sit for hours or days before being loaded/unloaded. The issue of safety has to be addressed, but I sometimes feel unsafe now among the 18-wheelers on the Interstate.

In Florida, a few years ago I read that they are already trialing autonomous 18-wheelers on the highways. (Even pulling double-trailers if I recall correctly.) Apparently once they are guided onto the highway by a remote operator, these trucks 'drive' unaided, driving at safe speeds and staying in the right lane, until they get close to their destination exit, at which time a human located somewhere far away, sitting at a computer screen and able to 'see' the view from the remote truck, takes over the controls and guides them off the exit and to a nearby semi-truck parking lot. There, a human driver takes over for local driving.

This never got much press/publicity. Perhaps it was done on purpose so as to not 'freak out' the general public.

When in Florida, I'm always trying to see if there's a driver in the semi-trucks that I pass on the highway. Sometimes it is hard to discern due to lighting, windshield angle, cab height, side mirror angle, etc.

omni

 

[Lvus101]

Credit card debt is skyrocketing across America. That is how they are paying in a lot of cases. Pay now and go bankrupt later

 

[Scuba]

My youngest is at home until late this year.

Graduated last May, but couldn't get a slot for their military job training (National Guard) until this fall, which will run take several months, then they're off to work just a few days later in spring 2023.

Couldn't find an employer willing to hire them right after graduation because of the above...so much for all the "we support the military" moonshine most companies put out.

Sounds like your kid has a plan. There are many who don’t seem to and are nowhere near as far ahead career wise or financially than my generation was at similar ages. Some are doing great, but I’m aware of many who don’t seem to really be self-sufficient adults well into their mid-20’s. Not having kids myself, I’m not sure of all the reasons for this, but I know that in my own case, I felt that supporting myself was my only option.

 

[EastWest Gal]

at a grocery store, where I have to key in the info for produce, it takes forever. I can't simply learn the top 20 four-digit codes like a cashier would in a day or 2.



Last week I was buying - per the name tag on the item section: "Green Onions/Chives"

So I had to find them at self checkout. Typed Green...nope. Typed Chives, nope. Typed Onions, and then swiped to the 2nd page of results and voila...



And another item rang up full price instead of sale. Had to flag over the helper who was already 3 deep in others trying to code for chives before she could come to me....

Produce and bulk nuts are the only areas of the store where you key in anything. The PLU codes can be found in the electronic scales and often on the labels on the shelves. I use reusable grocery bags and mesh produce bags, avoiding all plastic.

At Wegmans, I use my phone to scan the items, and bag as I go. I can see what I will be paying in the moment. In the produce section, you can scan the code on the scale, no paper label needed. At the checkout station, you scan the code there too. Then open up my Apple wallet and pay, and I’m out the door.

I only use human checkout if I buy wine.

 

[target2019]

at a grocery store, where I have to key in the info for produce, it takes forever. I can't simply learn the top 20 four-digit codes like a cashier would in a day or 2.

Last week I was buying - per the name tag on the item section: "Green Onions/Chives"
So I had to find them at self checkout. Typed Green...nope. Typed Chives, nope. Typed Onions, and then swiped to the 2nd page of results and voila...

And another item rang up full price instead of sale. Had to flag over the helper who was already 3 deep in others trying to code for chives before she could come to me....

You swiped right in the checkout line? Lol...

Checkout just makes me feel older than I am.

 

[Time2]

Yep - and the remaining workers, if they have any qualifications at all, are refusing to work for bad. Low pay, horrible customers, worse managers, constantly changing work hours, hours limited so as to not pay benefits - the list goes on and on. We have become accustomed to being served by people who are simply finding better opportunities and that is reflected in our experience as customers.

At the end of this, there will probably be a large number of businesses that are shuttered due to their inability to compensate employees properly while at the same time providing a product at an attractive price to the consumer. All fans of capitalism should rejoice at this development. Fans of cheap fast food might not be as happy.

r/antiwork is a Reddit sub forum all about people who don't want to work. It's is usually about pay, working conditions, management expectations, CEO pay. I made several positive posts about some situations and I finally got banned for my input. I find this sub very sad, but I'm starting to have some empathy for the situation, but I don't like the fact that the group is large and they just come together to commiserate, rather than take care of their own situation and strive to do better. I have looked at some numbers of income vs housing prices and we are at a high ratio, making it harder to get a house. I also see minimum wage has not kept up with inflation, so what money is earned does not go as far.

However I still can't see how working and getting some money to live is better than not working and... I don't know what they survive on.
Peruse a bit and you will get the theme of the sub. https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/

 

[target2019]

Yes, I've read some of the antiwork posts. Many are comical. And I say that as one who prefers lazy to just about every other activity.

It's a very skewed population there. I see it as rhetoric, and I prefer that to anarchy.

 

[COcheesehead]

I’ve seen order consoles on tables in place of waiters at fast casual restaurants. I’ve seen previous table service restaurants go to order at the counter and pick up type places.
Airport check in is now a kiosk. Rental car is a kiosk too.
Doctor’s office has you check in online.
My bank is my phone.
My travel agent is my tablet.
More technology, more killer apps to come. Trust me.

 

[MRG]

r/antiwork is a Reddit sub forum all about people who don't want to work. It's is usually about pay, working conditions, management expectations, CEO pay. I made several positive posts about some situations and I finally got banned for my input. I find this sub very sad, but I'm starting to have some empathy for the situation, but I don't like the fact that the group is large and they just come together to commiserate, rather than take care of their own situation and strive to do better. I have looked at some numbers of income vs housing prices and we are at a high ratio, making it harder to get a house. I also see minimum wage has not kept up with inflation, so what money is earned does not go as far.

However I still can't see how working and getting some money to live is better than not working and... I don't know what they survive on.
Peruse a bit and you will get the theme of the sub. https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/

You got banned, I quit before that happened to me. Bunch of whinging twits who have never been hungry. These folks have missed the point of getting ahead and likely will wallow in how unfair the world is all of their lives.
I generally believe in worker's rights but that sub is a bunch of people who need to grow up and start working. Perhaps there's always a group like this but now they have a platform/echo chamber.

 

[Time2]

You got banned, I quit before that happened to me. Bunch of whinging twits who have never been hungry. These folks have missed the point of getting ahead and likely will wallow in how unfair the world is all of their lives.
I generally believe in worker's rights but that sub is a bunch of people who need to grow up and start working. Perhaps there's always a group like this but now they have a platform/echo chamber.

That was clearly my sentiment and I still lean that way.


However, I'm beginning to believe that economics have changed and it is harder to start out. But, I also believe in individual initiative. I saw one post that went on about our grandparents could work three years and buy a house, etc. I though, oh nonsense! And then I looked at my life, I married in 1981 and in 1984 we bought our first home. 10% down 13.75% with a three year balloon. I got laid off a month later, but we had savings.
In fact another thing I have never got over, the state had a mortgage subsidy plan for those making under $20k (round numbers) we earned just under $20k, however we spent three years, living well below our income and saved over $20k the interest rates then were very high like 10%. The interest plus our income disqualified us from the 9% subsidy program. We did the right thing by saving and got penalized by the state.

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

That was clearly my sentiment and I still lean that way.
We did the right thing by saving and got penalized by the state.

I don't think you got penalized -- you just didn't get subsidized.

 

[Time2]

I don't think you got penalized -- you just didn't get subsidized.

Potato, patato, I feel I was penalized the money I would have saved with a 9% mortgage vs 13.75%, precisely because we saved money to get ahead.
But I showed them, I retired rich! and moved to sunny Florida