Delta variant can infect families from exposed children, even vaccinated adults.

[CardsFan]

The problem is that the science changes as we learn more. Some people treat science like it is a religion - truths handed down for all time by a superior being. Real science often changes what we know to be true.

I wish the talking heads in the media and the politicians would stop telling us they are 'following the science'. It's like they joined some weird pseudo-science cult, and have achieved a level of enlightenment that allows them to look down on the rest of us mere mortals.

Yeah. The worst phrase is "Settled Science". There are scientific theories. And, Believe it or Not, some of them don't agree.

 

[RAE]

The problem is that the science changes as we learn more. Some people treat science like it is a religion - truths handed down for all time by a superior being. Real science often changes what we know to be true.

I wish the talking heads in the media and the politicians would stop telling us they are 'following the science'. It's like they joined some weird pseudo-science cult, and have achieved a level of enlightenment that allows them to look down on the rest of us mere mortals.

+1. The science often does change as we learn more, which is why I try to keep up with the latest studies and information. Sometimes new information is revealed which may not support things that were previously-believed, and science says that we should remain open to consider that new information. It's a continuing evolution.

 

[Freedom56]

All the focus has been on the Delta variant in Florida but things must be getting serious in Texas. They are asking for out-of-state healthcare workers.

"Abbott Requests Help From Hospitals, Out-of-State Healthcare Workers as Virus Surges"

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/coronav...e-elective-surgeries-as-virus-surges/2714430/

 

[MuirWannabe]

The problem is that the science changes as we learn more. Some people treat science like it is a religion - truths handed down for all time by a superior being. Real science often changes what we know to be true.

I wish the talking heads in the media and the politicians would stop telling us they are 'following the science'. It's like they joined some weird pseudo-science cult, and have achieved a level of enlightenment that allows them to look down on the rest of us mere mortals.

+1
Hard to think of a post I’ve read related to Covid that has caused such thorough agreement with me as this one. Thanks.

 

[Markola]

As a reference point, we have family members who were vacationing in north Georgia last week with another family with kids. Everyone is vaccinated, except a boy who is too young. I think he’s 12. The 22 y.o. daughter came down with symptoms, including feeling stuffy and losing her sense of taste. Now two of the adults have symptoms and feel lousy. Everyone is quarantined. The one we’re most worried about is the twelve y.o. boy, who is showing symptoms.

I’m vaccinated and believe everyone who can, should be, and we know that break through cases among vaccinated people result in much milder symptoms typically. Still, I’m very surprised at the number of break through cases in our family sample above, which seems a much higher rate than what I’ve heard in U.S. media. RAE commented above that the Israeli break through rate is 40%, so maybe that’s more accurate.

 

[explanade]

DoD requires vaccination of active duty in September.

 

[teetee]

As a reference point, we have family members who were vacationing in north Georgia last week with another family with kids. Everyone is vaccinated, except a boy who is too young. I think he’s 12. The 22 y.o. daughter came down with symptoms, including feeling stuffy and losing her sense of taste. Now two of the adults have symptoms and feel lousy. Everyone is quarantined. The one we’re most worried about is the twelve y.o. boy, who is showing symptoms.

I’m vaccinated and believe everyone who can, should be, and we know that break through cases among vaccinated people result in much milder symptoms typically. Still, I’m very surprised at the number of break through cases in our family sample above, which seems a much higher rate than what I’ve heard in U.S. media. RAE commented above that the Israeli break through rate is 40%, so maybe that’s more accurate.

It should serve a warning that the Delta strain transmits through the vaccinated population like knife cutting through cake (similar observations have been made in several areas with high vaccination rates back in July). The virus is mutating and evolving into something that is breaking through the existing immune defense by entering into the cells faster and in more reliable fashion. It is the mechanism that has the potential for more resilient novel strain to develope from the large number of replications and shorter turnaround.

At this point if the new dominant strain becomes very deadly, it may actually be our bless to end this wave faster with significant death toll. The transmission rate will decrease (one carrier can only spread to limited number of people before he/she dies) like Ebola. People will go back to lockdown and there won't be political debate if people start dying and be thrown out on the streets and their bodies are set on fire.

While some people are still stuck at debating about the masks wearing and vaccinations like they did last year, the virus is already two steps ahead of us via evolution. We can't evolve as fast as the virus do, but it does not feel right that we can't change our minds and adapt our decision making skills to the new environment. So far we are just playing hide and retreat in this battle while significant portion of the population has trouble taking it seriously.

 

[teetee]

+1
Hard to think of a post I’ve read related to Covid that has caused such thorough agreement with me as this one. Thanks.

I had trouble with learning science in school when I was in college with that exact reason. I always had questions and doubt everything. I failed to recognize that each new finding can change the stuff in the text book (also I was being lazy but tried to find excuses not to study).

With lots of struggling, I finally learned that science is really a brain game (and also working in the related field helped). You don't have to believe what you read but it is an exercise for the brain to use cause-and-effect to creat your own thoughts about the matter in hand. Heck the thoughts you formed today may be completely off tomorrow once the new observation and stats become available. But the brain will remember that experience and help you to form more targeted new concept faster.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Sounds pretty normal for us ex-military who were vaccinated against every conceivable disease while we were in uniform. I got out my old yellow shot cards last year and looked through them.

49 entries while on active duty.
Since then, I've had a flu shot every year for the last 32 years, plus two tetanus shots, four pneumonia shots (various kinds), three shingles shots (various), and two COVID-19 shots.

To me, and those in similar circumstances, a vaccination against something is very much a desirable thing. It's known to protect you against something, and during my entire 21 year career in uniform I never knew a single person who suffered an unpleasant side effect from one of those shots.

Sure, there were issues. I remember very well the pain from all the gamma globulin shots, and I once felt lightheaded for a few minutes after a typhus shot, but I don't consider those significant. Any time I'm offered a vaccine against something dangerous, I'm going to take it.

Did you get the anthrax vaccine? I know plenty of folks who had them and had negative effects...career ending for some of them. Obviously, this is different from the COVID vaccine, but just an illustration that not all vaccines are without issue.

I agree on the comments about how information is presented. Most folks should understand that science DOES evolve, but apparently a lot of folks don't realize this. It's quite annoying to see so many people being...well, I can't say.

 

[braumeister]

No, that was after my time.

 

[MichaelB]

<mod note> Posts have been removed. Snarky comments about politicians or media don’t add any value to the discussion and will lead to another thread being closed. Please keep in mind the rules for this forum and make sure posts are helpful.

 

[audreyh1]

As a reference point, we have family members who were vacationing in north Georgia last week with another family with kids. Everyone is vaccinated, except a boy who is too young. I think he’s 12. The 22 y.o. daughter came down with symptoms, including feeling stuffy and losing her sense of taste. Now two of the adults have symptoms and feel lousy. Everyone is quarantined. The one we’re most worried about is the twelve y.o. boy, who is showing symptoms.

I’m vaccinated and believe everyone who can, should be, and we know that break through cases among vaccinated people result in much milder symptoms typically. Still, I’m very surprised at the number of break through cases in our family sample above, which seems a much higher rate than what I’ve heard in U.S. media. RAE commented above that the Israeli break through rate is 40%, so maybe that’s more accurate.

That was my OP point. Breakthrough infections are high within a household if one member is infected. It’s usually an unvaxxed household member though that is initially infected. Apparently not always.

Also, Israel found that spread outside the household from vaccinated people was quite low, but they had to exclude household members.

 

[ivinsfan]

That was my OP point. Breakthrough infections are high within a household if one member is infected. It’s usually an unvaxxed household member though that is initially infected. Apparently not always.

Also, Israel found that spread outside the household from vaccinated people was quite low, but they had to exclude household members.

Not always... but you might assume that if you are on vacation in a high outbreak state you could have been exposed to other infected people that hadn't been vaccinated.



So maybe it wasn't all household exposure to a vaccinated person.

 

[Chuckanut]

Interesting comments from Dr. Gottlieb on protecting non vaccinated children

He thinks this is the last of the big waves of Covid, assuming no variant develops that pierces the protection of natural immunity and/or the vaccines. His reasoning is that this wave will affect so many previously uninfected non-vaccinated people that we will reach a level of protection that, combined with the vaccinated people, will hold down high levels of virus circulation in the future. The silver lining around the cloud, I guess. He doesn't see it lasting all Fall and into Winter. But, it could last a couple more months.

But, parents and other family members need to be vigilant to not get Delta and then pass it on to the children at home. Don't get it outside the house and bring it into the home. I guess it's time for parents to get the masks out even if fully vaccinated. And avoid places where exposure is more likely (crowded indoor places, I assume). He foresees a couple more months of difficulty before this wave subsides.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1424705505059033090

Note: the above is my understanding of he said in the video above.

 

[explanade]

Interesting comments from Dr. Gottlieb on protecting non vaccinated children

He thinks this is the last of the big waves of Covid, assuming no variant develops that pierces the protection of natural immunity and/or the vaccines. His reasoning is that this wave will affect so many previously uninfected non-vaccinated people that we will reach a level of protection that, combined with the vaccinated people, will hold down high levels of virus circulation in the future. The silver lining around the cloud, I guess. He doesn't see it lasting all Fall and into Winter. But, it could last a couple more months.

But, parents and other family members need to be vigilant to not get Delta and then pass it on to the children at home. Don't get it outside the house and bring it into the home. I guess it's time for parents to get the masks out even if fully vaccinated. And avoid places where exposure is more likely (crowded indoor places, I assume). He foresees a couple more months of difficulty before this wave subsides.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1424705505059033090

Note: the above is my understanding of he said in the video above.

I like watching Gottlieb on TV and he’s a very respected doctor. But I don’t believe his specialty is epidemiology or virology.

He predicted a few months ago that there would no longer be surges, because of vaccination and natural immunity.

Even if we get up to 85-90% vaccinated and infected, it still leaves tens of millions without any immunity in this country alone and hundreds of millions worldwide.

 

[audreyh1]

Interesting comments from Dr. Gottlieb on protecting non vaccinated children

He thinks this is the last of the big waves of Covid, assuming no variant develops that pierces the protection of natural immunity and/or the vaccines. His reasoning is that this wave will affect so many previously uninfected non-vaccinated people that we will reach a level of protection that, combined with the vaccinated people, will hold down high levels of virus circulation in the future. The silver lining around the cloud, I guess. He doesn't see it lasting all Fall and into Winter. But, it could last a couple more months.

But, parents and other family members need to be vigilant to not get Delta and then pass it on to the children at home. Don't get it outside the house and bring it into the home. I guess it's time for parents to get the masks out even if fully vaccinated. And avoid places where exposure is more likely (crowded indoor places, I assume). He foresees a couple more months of difficulty before this wave subsides.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1424705505059033090

Note: the above is my understanding of he said in the video above.

Yes, I watched him and that was his take. And it’s a new one about delta reaching so many unvaccinated people.

But I don’t see how unvaccinated children will be protected much when they return to school. I think it seems quite likely children will be exposed via school no matter how careful the parents are - which of course the parent should be careful regardless.

We shall see….

I like watching Gottlieb on TV and he’s a very respected doctor. But I don’t believe his specialty is epidemiology or virology.

Very true. I think he’s quite informative, but he likes to make predictions, and I always take them with a grain of salt.

Plus he gets to update his predictions every week…….

I think one thing that should be humbling to everybody: the Delta variant changed everything.

 

[Alan]

In the UK Scottish schools go back on the 16th, 2 weeks ahead of schools in England. Lots of attention will be focused on how the infection rate will change. No children under age 16 will have been vaccinated.

Latest test of antibodies from either vaccines or infection are at over 90% of adult population

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...ntibodyandvaccinationdatafortheuk/4august2021

In England, it is estimated that over 9 in 10 adults, or 93.6% of the adult population (95% credible interval: 92.5% to 94.5%) would have tested positive for antibodies against SARS-CoV-2, the specific virus that causes coronavirus (COVID-19), on a blood test in the week beginning 12 July 2021, suggesting they had the infection in the past or have been vaccinated.
In Wales, it is estimated that over 9 in 10 adults, or 93.2% of the adult population (95% credible interval: 91.7% to 94.4%) would have tested positive for antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 on a blood test in the week beginning 12 July 2021, suggesting they had the infection in the past or have been vaccinated.
In Northern Ireland, it is estimated that around 9 in 10 adults, or 90.7% of the adult population (95% credible interval: 87.4% to 93.3%) would have tested positive for antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 on a blood test in the week beginning 12 July 2021, suggesting they had the infection in the past or have been vaccinated.
In Scotland, it is estimated that over 9 in 10 adults, or 92.5% of the adult population (95% credible interval: 91.0% to 93.7%) would have tested positive for antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 on a blood test in the week beginning 12 July 2021, suggesting they had the infection in the past or have been vaccinated.

Across all four countries of the UK, there is a clear pattern between vaccination and testing positive for COVID-19 antibodies but the detection of antibodies alone is not a precise measure of the immunity protection given by vaccination.

 

[gattara]

I think one thing that should be humbling to everybody: the Delta variant changed everything.

Yes indeed. I have never felt more humbled in my life, watching the twists and turns since the pandemic began. I feel like I am watching an unpredictable force of nature and the only thing I know for sure is I want to stay out of its way.

 

[REWahoo]

I think one thing that should be humbling to everybody: the Delta variant changed everything.

^ This.

...the only thing I know for sure is I want to stay out of its way.

^ And this.

Based on several factors, primarily those associated with the Delta variant, we have canceled our upcoming plans for a three week RV trip. Things have changed substantially for the worse since we made reservations back in March and the return to school for millions of unvaccinated kids doesn't bode well for the next few months.

 

[harllee]

I really feel for the parents of unvaccinated children going back to school in the next few weeks. If I were a parent of a child under age 12 I don't know what I would do. I think attending school is important but I would be very afraid for my unvaccinated child to attend school at this point.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

I really feel for the parents of unvaccinated children going back to school in the next few weeks. If I were a parent of a child under age 12 I don't know what I would do. I think attending school is important but I would be very afraid for my unvaccinated child to attend school at this point.

Georgia will be a good "test" state as many schools were back in session on Aug 2nd.

Edit: One district in the NW burbs of ATL is reporting 253 cases (updated each Friday, last on the 6th) out of about 112,000 students.

https://www.cobbk12.org/page/40801/covid-case-notification

 

[ncbill]

It has begun.

Health department in the next county over has re-imposed mask mandate for all indoor activities, effective 5 pm Friday.

Wondering how long before the governor's office re-imposes masks statewide...

 

[harllee]

It has begun.

Health department in the next county over has re-imposed mask mandate for all indoor activities, effective 5 pm Friday.

Wondering how long before the governor's office re-imposes masks statewide...

My county (Orange County NC) has reimposed a mask mandate for indoor businesses starting tomorrow. So has some of the adjacent counties.

 

[gayl]

Good news!! (And we can all use some) California's covid positivity rate is dropping. We've had an indoor mask requirement for all (vaxed & nonvaxed) for a few weeks

 

[audreyh1]

Wow, lots of hospitals in the major outbreak zones are turning away ambulances and annoy other new patients. “Total diversion”

As far as I know this is the largest hospital in Atlanta.

At 10:14pm last night (8/8), Grady Health System in Atlanta, the largest Level I Trauma Center in Georgia, reached full capacity and went to total diversion, unable to accept any emergency patients.

Several other medical centers in the same position.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1424714938543652868

Related article from local TV station: Metro Atlanta hospitals report packed emergency rooms as COVID-19 cases surge https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/at...e-er-overcrowding/62CUFLLGJRFOHDOTDB2QPZZUDM/