Delta variant can infect families from exposed children, even vaccinated adults.

[ExFlyBoy5]

Gosh!

... recently I joined Twitter ...

I'm sorry for your loss.

Just kidding. Twitter is a pretty good resource for very recent developments, but users have to be very careful about the sources they choose. Of course, I have no doubt Audreyh1 will NOT have any problems with that.

edit: Sorry...I meant to say that she will NOT have issues.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

By "booster shot" , I think you are meaning a 3rd shot as there aren't any real booster shots that I'm aware are available.

I've considered the same thing, they are begging for folks to get a shot, so they are available.
I just read the efficacy of the Pfizer shot drops from mid-90's to 84% in the first 4->6 months.
I think this contributes to why breakthroughs are happening

I am a little concerned about intense side effects from a 3rd shot, and there is the nagging moral issue of needing to lie to get it.

Yes, a third shot. I am on the fence about it in all honesty. I don't think there would be any ramifications (legally speaking) but I don't really know but am siding towards not trying to get it.

I do know that I do NOT want COVID. We have a couple of family members who are long haulers and they are not in good shape. Prior to COVID, they were relatively healthy and quite active. Now? They don't do much at all due to fatigue and tell me that they feel like they are 80 years old.

 

[audreyh1]

Fresh review from Nature for those who think the lock-and-key binding between viral glycan and the human cell membrane is not the whole story (spoiler alert: you are right):

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02039-y

This beautifully presented article is still a bit above my pay grade. A layman’s summary or maybe just pointing out a couple of other key parts of the story would be very nice if you wouldn’t mind.

 

[audreyh1]

I'm sorry for your loss.

Just kidding. Twitter is a pretty good resource for very recent developments, but users have to be very careful about the sources they choose. Of course, I have no doubt Audreyh1 will NOT have any problems with that.

Absolutely! I held out for a very long time. But there are certain scientists and doctors that I follow in general, and I have to admit Twitter is a very efficient way to do it, and I find articles of interest and interviews faster as they tend to be recommended by sources I follow.

However, severely limiting who you follow seems key as it’s easy to get completely swamped.

P.S. I’m so sorry to hear about your family members struggling with long COVID.

 

[audreyh1]

I read some interesting statistics regarding breakthrough cases among the Washington, DC, population. More than 375,000 people in DC are fully vaccinated. There are 200 known breakthrough cases among them.

The following quotes come from a Washington Post article, which is probably behind a paywall:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...2954a6-eaf6-11eb-8950-d73b3e93ff7f_story.html

"Of the 200 breakthrough cases, 57 percent had symptoms, 28.5 percent were asymptomatic. (For 14.5 percent, symptom status was not known.) Thirteen people were hospitalized with covid-19, or 6.5 percent of the breakthrough cases."

"Just 0.05 percent of the people who were fully vaccinated with the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine tested positive, compared with 0.04 percent of those who received the Moderna vaccine and 0.12 percent of those who got the Johnson & Johnson shot."

Presumably there are more asymptomatic cases who were not tested. I'm curious what the testing circumstances were among the asymptomatic folks. There was one detail in the article which sounds dubious. A DC Dept. of Health official said that only 1% of the samples in DC were the Delta variant. It's 83% countrywide. According to CDC data, the mid-Atlantic region has a lower incidence of the Delta variant, but it's still around 66% of covid cases.

There were 4 deaths among the breakthrough cases, and all 4 had "significant medical histories".

I tried unsuccessfully to find the DC government page which has these data.

When I see statistics like this that appear to be pre-delta, I feel like it’s way old news already and no longer the world we are living in. Delta seems to have drastically changed all this.

 

[ivinsfan]

Here's a visual reminder of the damage neuro Covid can cause in children. This is an exercise for measuring function in elderly Alzheimer's patients, drawn by an 11 year old long Covid patient. The instruction was to draw 11:50. What does her future hold?

Source is her mother's post on Twitter.

Do today's 11YO even know what a clock or watch it?



I'd like to see more then a Mom's twitter feed.....I've seen so much "first"person stuff on FB, Intagram, and Twitter some of its pure fantasy and/or agenda driven.

 

[Another Reader]

Long Covid seems to be relatively common in breakthrough infections. Early Israeli study: https://www.npr.org/sections/health...uggests?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Lots of anecdotal reporting. Diana Berrent, the founder of Survivor Corps, has been doing a survey, working with Professor Akiko Iwasaki of Yale. This post is a general observation, but note the comment from Dr. Daniel Griffin in the comments.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1420580748097163265

And for a reminderof what Long Covid can do to young healthy people, this first person piece is from a CNN reporter.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/23/opin...s-brought-me-to-the-brink-stephens/index.html

Somewhere between 10 and 30 percent of patients develop Long Covid per the various studies. No wonder the administration extended some disability provisions to Long Covid patients. Imagine what the actuaries at SSA, Medicare, insurance companies, and providers are thinking as they scramble to deal with this.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Absolutely! I held out for a very long time. But there are certain scientists and doctors that I follow in general, and I have to admit Twitter is a very efficient way to do it, and I find articles of interest and interviews faster as they tend to be recommended by sources I follow.

However, severely limiting who you follow seems key as it’s easy to get completely swamped.

P.S. I’m so sorry to hear about your family members struggling with long COVID.

I think there is a fine line...too few....not useful. Too many? Not useful because of all the noise. It has taken me a couple of years of adjustments to find a decent balance. And sorry, I meant to say that you WOULDN'T have any issues figuring it out; I was typing too fast and I initially said you would have issues.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Long Covid seems to be relatively common in breakthrough infections. Early Israeli study: https://www.npr.org/sections/health...uggests?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Lots of anecdotal reporting. Diana Berrent, the founder of Survivor Corps, has been doing a survey, working with Professor Akiko Iwasaki of Yale. This post is a general observation, but note the comment from Dr. Daniel Griffin in the comments.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1420580748097163265

And for a reminderof what Long Covid can do to young healthy people, this first person piece is from a CNN reporter.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/23/opin...s-brought-me-to-the-brink-stephens/index.html

Somewhere between 10 and 30 percent of patients develop Long Covid per the various studies. No wonder the administration extended some disability provisions to Long Covid patients. Imagine what the actuaries at SSA, Medicare, insurance companies, and providers are thinking as they scramble to deal with this.

Ah, such excellent news early this AM.

I am also somewhat concerned about those who may not be "long haul" today (as in considered fully recovered) but that it develops into something else many years down the road (eg. chicken pox -> shingles). Perhaps this is an irrational fear, but it's one I have nonetheless.

Do today's 11YO even know what a clock or watch it?

I would guess that since they have used tablets since they were old enough to hold them, they could tell time long before I could.

 

[ivinsfan]

Ah, such excellent news early this AM.

I am also somewhat concerned about those who may not be "long haul" today (as in considered fully recovered) but that it develops into something else many years down the road (eg. chicken pox -> shingles). Perhaps this is an irrational fear, but it's one I have nonetheless.



I would guess that since they have used tablets since they were old enough to hold them, they could tell time long before I could.

Notice I said clock not being able to tell time..big difference...

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Notice I said clock not being able to tell time..big difference...

Point taken. My most sincere apologies.

 

[ivinsfan]

Long Covid seems to be relatively common in breakthrough infections. Early Israeli study: https://www.npr.org/sections/health...uggests?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Lots of anecdotal reporting. Diana Berrent, the founder of Survivor Corps, has been doing a survey, working with Professor Akiko Iwasaki of Yale. This post is a general observation, but note the comment from Dr. Daniel Griffin in the comments.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1420580748097163265

And for a reminderof what Long Covid can do to young healthy people, this first person piece is from a CNN reporter.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/23/opin...s-brought-me-to-the-brink-stephens/index.html

Somewhere between 10 and 30 percent of patients develop Long Covid per the various studies. No wonder the administration extended some disability provisions to Long Covid patients. Imagine what the actuaries at SSA, Medicare, insurance companies, and providers are thinking as they scramble to deal with this.

Had annual lake lunch with DH life friend and wife last week. They both had relatively mild cases of Covid last November...think bad cold.


In late Jan the guy developed some weird symptoms a numbness behind one ear and some dizzy if he stood or moved his head too fast.



After some testing because the gentleman also has a small aortic aneurysm the doc said, well I see you had Covid so it's probably long haul Covid. Why don't you make an appointment with one of our 3 long haul Covid clinics.. well this was in May and the first appt open was in Sept.


Is the tail wagging the dog here? Now they've monetized long Covid. I find this concerning.

 

[Aerides]

Mod Note:

Wherever possible, please link to the source (the published news report, medical journal) vs. the tweet. While some tweets are totally legit and provide links to those reports, they often don't, or provide a single personal view that may not have been vetted.

In general it takes no time to dig into a tweet to find this info if it exists. Please do this due diligence before sharing here. Posts may be edited or removed if they don't meet forum standards.

 

[ivinsfan]

Point taken. My most sincere apologies.

No apology necessary ....but do you ever wonder when an actual clock will become obsolete?

 

[anethum]

When I see statistics like this that appear to be pre-delta, I feel like it’s way old news already and no longer the world we are living in. Delta seems to have drastically changed all this.

Those DC statistics are cumulative, not old, and they were from this week. Even with cumulative data, I would have expected more breakthrough cases to be Delta. If these data are accurate, they would indicate that although non-vaccinated people are much more susceptible to Delta, the 3 vaccines in use in the USA are doing a very good job at preventing breakthrough Delta infections.

Maryland will soon be giving breakthrough data. I imagine that some states are already doing this.

 

[Chuckanut]

The UK is planning booster shots for the over 50s this winter, hopefully at the same time as the flu shot if the trials show no bad interactions. They have ordered another 100m Pfizer doses for the program. (Pfizer was the first vaccine to be rolled out here last December.)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57667987

So, why does the UK have such a well organized plan compared to here in the USA?

My guess is that they have realized corona virus will be with us for a long long time, and it needs to be managed as public health problem. IOW, the emergency is over, and a longer term plan is now in effect to deal with corona virus over the years. Am I right or wrong

 

[ivinsfan]

So, why does the UK have such a well organized plan compared to here in the USA?

My guess is that they have realized corona virus will be with us for a long long time, and it needs to be managed as public health problem. IOW, the emergency is over, and a longer term plan is now in effect to deal with corona virus over the years. Am I right or wrong

We have plenty of "leftover" doses in the US I would imagine....but I think a lot of people realized from the get go that some boosters would be needed..


We'll need more boosters then expected because of the vaccine resistant.

 

[Popeye]

You'd have to fake an identity no? I mean I know I had to give my ID and insurance info to get my first two. And neither of the 2-shot vaccines are approved beyond that...yet. So no doc or pharmacist can administer a third, as it would be not permitted for them legally.

So, not only would you be lying to get it, you'd be compromising a medical professional as well (even if unwittingly).

Things have been moving very quickly around the idea of boosters, so I'm sure that those in the vulnerable groups will get them first, when that's decided. And perhaps the rest of us won't be far behind, if we'd like, soon after, since the production and distribution issues were cleared up months ago.

I don’t think you’d have to fake much. When I got the shots they asked for insurance info but never checked ID on either shot. Also, the paperwork specifically noted that refusing to provide the info would not preclude getting the shot.

 

[Montecfo]

Disneysteve has shared that he has seen quite a few breakthrough infections.

I don't doubt it. But statistically breakthrough infections requiring hospitalization are rare. 6000 cases out of 161m vaccinated Americans.

 

[audreyh1]

I don't doubt it. But statistically breakthrough infections requiring hospitalization are rare. 6000 cases out of 161m vaccinated Americans.

Disneysteve is talking about patients coming to see him as their regular doctor. Not about hospitalization.

The point of this thread is that breakthrough infections seems to be far more likely with the delta variant compared to the original or alpha variant. Which is why the CDC changed their recommendations this week (particularly because transmission even from an asymptomatic vaccinated person is now possible). So be aware, not surprised.

CDC is not tracking non-hospitalized breakthrough infections so we didn’t see the changing trends with new variants.

 

[Montecfo]

The data I cited is as of July 19. It is the most current CDC data.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/breakthrough-cases.html

There is no other data to replace this with as far as I know.

I am all for taking appropriate precautions. I just think we must consult the best data in order to accurately assess those risks.

 

[audreyh1]

I’m not sure exactly which study(ies) the CDC is referring to that showed a vaccinated person infected with delta was shedding almost as much virus as an unvaccinated person, and that the amount was considerable, even for an asymptomatic vaccinated person. Sounds like the info is more recent than July 19. I assume this information will be forthcoming.

But Walensky pointed to new data showing that while vaccinated people still account for a small amount of risk, in rare cases they can get infected and spread the virus to others.

"The delta variant is showing every day its willingness to outsmart us," Walensky said.

" When we examine the rare breakthrough infections and we look at the amount of virus in those people, it is pretty similar to the amount of virus in unvaccinated people," she said. And, it's possible that because of this higher viral load, people with breakthrough cases of delta may be able to spread it.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health...ce-for-vaccinated-people-including-in-schools

 

[Montecfo]

Walensky calls breakthrough infections "rare", which is the point I made.

The Delta variant is overwhelmingly an issue for the unvaxxed. That is what the data show.

Personally, I maintain distance from people for whom vax status is not known by me, even though we are fully vaxxed. We have known the vax does not prevent illness since the start. Who wants to get sick?

 

[Sunset]

I don’t think you’d have to fake much. When I got the shots they asked for insurance info but never checked ID on either shot. Also, the paperwork specifically noted that refusing to provide the info would not preclude getting the shot.

I know when I got my 2 shots, they ask for insurance info, but there were folks there without insurance and they were fine as it's not required.

At that point they are only asking for ID, and if you don't drive

I have not done it and certainly won't for the next couple of weeks.

Considering shots are going to waste as are expiring due to low injection desires.
It would be GREAT if gov't said anyone wanting a 3rd shot can go ahead and get it.

At that point it might even motivate un-vaxer's to get the shots as they would see the abundance of shots would become a little more limited.

Maybe people think the booster shot will be different and be designed to aim at the Delta variant rather than just more of the same

 

[MichaelB]

Here’s (link)an article from New England Journal of Medicine, dated July 28, titled “ Covid-19 Breakthrough Infections in Vaccinated Health Care Workers”.

From the abstract

Among 1497 fully vaccinated health care workers for whom RT-PCR data were available, 39 SARS-CoV-2 breakthrough infections were documented. Neutralizing antibody titers in case patients during the peri-infection period were lower than those in matched uninfected controls (case-to-control ratio, 0.361; 95% confidence interval, 0.165 to 0.787). Higher peri-infection neutralizing antibody titers were associated with lower infectivity (higher Ct values). Most breakthrough cases were mild or asymptomatic, although 19% had persistent symptoms (>6 weeks). The B.1.1.7 (alpha) variant was found in 85% of samples tested. A total of 74% of case patients had a high viral load (Ct value, <30) at some point during their infection; however, of these patients, only 17 (59%) had a positive result on concurrent Ag-RDT. No secondary infections were documented.