are home generators going to be unavoidable in the future?

A home standby generator is an essential for us. Power company turns off our grid in the Summer/Fall when the wind blows.

I opted for the cheap approach. Poured a concrete pad next to our panel, installed a manual transfer switch so I don’t back feed the grid by accident and bought a large portable propane fired inverter generator. Have run the generator for a solid week off of the propane tank.

During an outage everything except air conditioning is powered up and we have satellite TV and internet for entertainment. Now outages are no big deal.
 
I am one who would be miserable without AC. We don't have outages often, but for people who do, how would you know how long the outage will last?

If you have a whole house generator with an auto transfer switch, it's no big deal. But if you need to drag out and set up a portable generator, what if you wait for an hour or so before you get off your butt to do it, then shortly after that the power comes back on?
Lot's of ways to skin a cat. Not a big deal when you have a shop and open air patio ~50' from the house that's prewired with a couple of isolated underground 12ga Romex cables to the house and a couple of UPS's that will hold up all my important electronics inside for 30+ mins and (2) 10k btu 110v backup window AC's. If the power is out from more than 10mins, it's usually going to be out for hours, so I get off my butt and fire things up. Without going into the details, I've got it down to an art. ~10 mins and I'm back inside on my butt.
 
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A home standby generator is an essential for us. Power company turns off our grid in the Summer/Fall when the wind blows.

I opted for the cheap approach. Poured a concrete pad next to our panel, installed a manual transfer switch so I don’t back feed the grid by accident and bought a large portable propane fired inverter generator. Have run the generator for a solid week off of the propane tank.

During an outage everything except air conditioning is powered up and we have satellite TV and internet for entertainment. Now outages are no big deal.
A+
 
Originally Posted by Aerides View Post
My back up plan is not a generator. It's my car and a list of hotels. That'll work for a few days if needed.

A very sensible approach for most of us.

Sounds good in principle but around here (Tennessee), hotel rooms get gobbled up in a hurry (for ice storms or tornado type weather).

We have a portable 3500 wt that works pretty well, but is a fair amount of hassle with cords, running it monthly, moving it around, etc. I am going to go the Generac route soon - full house 1500 sq ft.
 
1)in regards to the OP's original question, yes, I do think lawsuits will have an impact going forward on both the cost and an increase in intentional shut downs of the system during high winds (in certain areas only, I believe)

2)Atlas snowstorm, South Dakota, October 2013. I was at work up in Alaska but my husband was at home with our three young kids. No power for 7 days. Many large (and I do mean large) downed trees blocking in and out access to our neighborhood. So, packing up the car and getting to a hotel wasn't an option! And with so many neighborhoods in the state affected, help wasn't coming fast. Hubby used our gas powered generators to keep the fridge running etc, kept the house warm with the wood stove, and helped the elderly neighbors as well.

Lessons learned.

Fast forward to now, we moved to 40 acres ( roughly the same area) that would have cost us about 10-15K dollars to have electricity brought in. Instead, we have a 15KW lithium iron battery system, a 6 K inverter, and twenty five 250 watt solar panels (these were bought used) We have a separate smaller system powering the barn.

For us, it is both an enjoyable hobby and our lifeline rolled into one. Nothing gives me greater joy than on days when the batteries are full and we still have plenty of sun (we get a lot of sunshine in this state), running a load of laundry or cooking with he instant pot with "free" sunshine!

This life isn't for everyone (FYI, I love it!). But what it does do is give one a good sense of how to conserve electricity, how much individual appliances use (most people are pretty clueless), and a great appreciation for what many take for granted: electrical power to a home.

Having a back up system with a generator, no matter how small, is never a bad idea. You always have power, until you don't.



Lot's of ways to skin a cat. Not a big deal when you have a shop and open air patio ~50' from the house that's prewired with a couple of isolated underground 12ga Romex cables to the house and a couple of UPS's that will hold up all my important electronics inside for 30+ mins and (2) 10k btu 110v backup window AC's. If the power is out from more than 10mins, it's usually going to be out for hours, so I get off my butt and fire things up. Without going into the details, I've got it down to an art. ~10 mins and I'm back inside on my butt.

I am one who would be miserable without AC. We don't have outages often, but for people who do, how would you know how long the outage will last?

If you have a whole house generator with an auto transfer switch, it's no big deal. But if you need to drag out and set up a portable generator, what if you wait for an hour or so before you get off your butt to do it, then shortly after that the power comes back on?

A battery backup will work well for frequent outages. And if it looks like the power outage will last a while, you then set up the generator to feed the battery.

PS. A 14-kWh battery backup now costs $4K. Add a 6-kW inverter for $1K, and you can run the fridge and a couple of mini-splits ACs and lighting with ease. Most inverters have a built-in transfer switch, and can be wired permanently to your home the same way as you do a whole-house generator. To charge the battery in the case of long outages, a $500 portable generator will do.

In contrast with a whole-house generator that takes tens of seconds to come online, an inverter switches on instantly. The transfer takes place in milliseconds, just like the smaller UPS (Uninterruptible Power Supply) that is commonly used to keep PCs working.
 
We don’t have a generator. Our power was out for 6 days earlier this year. We live in an older area with large trees and overhead power lines. An extended outage like the one we had this year is unusual. Twenty years ago we had a power outage that lasted for over a week. Generally outages are very brief. When we have brief outages, we just don’t open the refrigerator or freezer and just wait it out.

I have thought about a generator. I think if nothing else it would likely ensure that we don’t have another extended outage. Of course, that wouldn’t be a bad thing…spend all the money on a generator and not need it.
 
Here's the thing about a gasoline powered generator. Unless the outage is localized to your street or your subdivision, you probably won't be able to easily get more gasoline to fuel it, since the pumps at the gas station need electricity to operate. So you are limited to the gas you have on hand when the outage occurs. This was a huge issue in my area during Hurricane Sandy. https://money.cnn.com/2012/11/01/news/economy/gas-stations-supply-sandy/
 
Here's the thing about a gasoline powered generator. Unless the outage is localized to your street or your subdivision, you probably won't be able to easily get more gasoline to fuel it, since the pumps at the gas station need electricity to operate. So you are limited to the gas you have on hand when the outage occurs. This was a huge issue in my area during Hurricane Sandy. https://money.cnn.com/2012/11/01/news/economy/gas-stations-supply-sandy/

This is why I have 3 small propane tanks for small outages and keep 2 cars gas'd up with at least 30-40 gallons between the 2 for extensive outages. Need more than that and we're in trouble...
 
This is why I have 3 small propane tanks for small outages and keep 2 cars gas'd up with at least 30-40 gallons between the 2 for extensive outages. Need more than that and we're in trouble...
Yup, I have 6 propane tanks for 3 outside patio heaters (one installed and one back up for each). That is why when I finally saw your post on your generator the other day, I ordered one shortly thereafter. :LOL: It just seemed too easy for me. Also, usually the reason I hate to BTD is the researching of what to buy and not the "dough" itself. I'm fired, I'm busy.:LOL:
 
About 4yrs ago we had a power outage that lasted 3 days due to a blown transformer. Some of us who didn't have a generator had to take turns running an extension cord from a couple of neighbors who did. After that I purchased a small/cheap 1kw generator and then a yr or so later I also installed 3 solar panels on the patio roof to feed a 100Ah battery+inverter. The idea was that I could use the generator for the basic necessities during the day and at night (quiet hours) use the battery to power a portable fan, router/modem, pc or even a small space heater etc if needed. Since then only had one outage of a few hours where I used the solar/battery rig to power the router/modem etc. I also have two cars so they (or their batteries) can also be harvested to extend the capacity if needed.
 
Instead of a home generator requiring fuel (and noise), consider a solar generator that can be recharged either while connected to electricity or via mobile solar panels. These are popular with campers too who are either tent camping/boondocking or do not want the generator noise/smell.
No, they will not power everything in your home but can do the basics. Refrigerators actually use very little wattage to maintain temperature once they are cold. There are many manufacturers and many sizes/capacities however, the larger the capacity, the more the unit weighs. This is an example of one of the manufacturers/units - https://www.jackery.com/products/jackery-explorer-1000-2-x-solarsaga-100w-solar-generator
 
...Refrigerators actually use very little wattage to maintain temperature once they are cold. There are many manufacturers and many sizes/capacities however, the larger the capacity, the more the unit weighs. This is an example of one of the manufacturers/units - https://www.jackery.com/products/jackery-explorer-1000-2-x-solarsaga-100w-solar-generator

Large refrigerators may still take more power than a portable solar generator can generate during the day and store for overnight operation.

For example, my main 30 c.f. fridge burns 5 kWh/day. My auxiliary 25 c.f. fridge takes 2.2 kWh/day. This is measured with a Kill-A-Watt over several days to average out variations.

Caveat: We open the large fridge all the time, plus it has an ice maker and I use a lot of ice. The smaller fridge gets opened 2 or 3 times a day, and has no ice maker.

As Koolau always says, YMMV. My fridges are 15-20-year-old. Newer ones may be more efficient.

PS. When using an inverter to power a fridge, you want to have some headroom and use an inverter of 1.5kW, or even 2kW output. The reason is that while the fridge compressor may draw only 300-400W when running, during startup the surge demand will be much higher for a couple of seconds. A smaller inverter of 1 kW may just trip its overload protection and turn itself off.
 
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Here in Phoenix, we do not have weather related problems that take out power as in other areas of the US. The utility has this to say on my Web account.



In both cases, my home was already running on solar power, and I only knew there was an outage when I tried to turn on the light in the living room whose circuit I intentionally left on the grid.

Still, both the two large utilities here made a public statement last year that there might be a chance of demand exceeding supply in the summer of 2024. My solar set up is providing about 45 kWh/day in the summer, while I use about 65-75 kWh/day when the high is 110+F. The balance comes from the grid. My battery runs out of juice at about 10-11PM. If the high is under 100F, the ACs don't work as hard and I can be off-grid 24/7.

If the grid ever gets down for long periods which is not likely, I can shut down one AC, the water heater, and the pool pump, and try to live within the 45 kWh/day that the solar system gives me.

Still, being a suspender+belt kind of guy, I have a 2-kW portable inverter generator, plus a 4-kW Onan generator in my class C motorhome.

It was my understanding that if your power goes out a solar system also stops providing power. Are you saying your system keeps generating electricity for days and days?
 
It was my understanding that if your power goes out a solar system also stops providing power. Are you saying your system keeps generating electricity for days and days?

In general, most people with a solar array plus a battery, can continue to generate power during an outage.

This is one of the things I like about solar + Baterries as our backup generator.

If grid power goes down, we have a transfer switch that disconnects us from the grid. This allows us to continue to get power from our solar array.
No worries about acquiring ‘fuel’, however, there is a limit to how long solar will hold out in the winter. Spring, summer and fall, we could go without grid power. In the coldest month of winter, we could go about 7 days without taking conservation measures. Longer if we did.
 
This is why I have 3 small propane tanks for small outages and keep 2 cars gas'd up with at least 30-40 gallons between the 2 for extensive outages. Need more than that and we're in trouble...
If you plan to use the gas from your cars to power your generators, you might want to be sure you know how to get the gas out of your car(s) safely before needing it. Just a plain old siphoning hose won't typically work with newer cars. But there are ways/tricks.
 
It was my understanding that if your power goes out a solar system also stops providing power. Are you saying your system keeps generating electricity for days and days?

What you think of is the common grid-tied system.

What I have is a DIY solar+battery that is really an off-grid system. I have a 34-kWh lithium battery that is going to be upgraded to 46 kWh capacity.

My system is independent of the grid. The solar array charges the battery, then the inverters feed off the battery to run the house. When the battery runs down at night, the inverters turn off, and the auto transfer switch puts the house back on the grid.

When it's not too hot, meaning high temperature of 100F and below, I run off the solar+battery 24/7. The grid is there for a backup to my solar, not the other way around.
 
In both cases, my home was already running on solar power, and I only knew there was an outage when I tried to turn on the light in the living room whose circuit I intentionally left on the grid.
Why did you leave that room on the grid?
 
About 4yrs ago we had a power outage that lasted 3 days due to a blown transformer. Some of us who didn't have a generator had to take turns running an extension cord from a couple of neighbors who did. After that I purchased a small/cheap 1kw generator and then a yr or so later I also installed 3 solar panels on the patio roof to feed a 100Ah battery+inverter. The idea was that I could use the generator for the basic necessities during the day and at night (quiet hours) use the battery to power a portable fan, router/modem, pc or even a small space heater etc if needed. Since then only had one outage of a few hours where I used the solar/battery rig to power the router/modem etc. I also have two cars so they (or their batteries) can also be harvested to extend the capacity if needed.

I’m all for going minimalist with a generator, but definitely consider some of the essentials. You want to be able to run your furnace if the outage happens in the winter. You may want to run air conditioning depending one where you live. A refrigerator is pretty important as well as things like a well pump or a sump pump.
 
My neighbor a couple streets over got a Tesla powerwall connected to his solar for this concern. However, we are relatively densely populated with underground wires. In 18 years I can count the times we lost power on one hand and it’s never been long enough for the ice to melt in my freezer.

Even if I got a generator, I have no idea how to move the built in refrigerator to plug it in. Just not something I worry about. I just keep enough water and propane on hand to enjoy a multi day camp out in my back yard in case my house is unsafe after an earthquake.
 
I have been reading about all the wildfires in Hawaii, colorado, etc. and have noticed that in these states or areas the electric companies are being sued for negligence because they didn't shut down power when there were high winds expected. I have never heard of shutting off electric power to homes because of high wind. I live in Iowa and we get high winds at times, but haven't had a power outage of more than an hour in years. this might be a dumb question, but do you think the amount of litigation going forward might force power companies to shut down power during high wind warnings. I don't have a home generator and it might be something I should consider under these circumstances. what are your opinions?

How often do high winds cause downed power lines in your area, at times when everything is dry and ready to burn?

How often do high winds start wildfires via contact between power lines and vegetation?

If neither of these things happens where you are, I'd guess your power company is pretty safe from such lawsuits.
 
Why did you leave that room on the grid?

I do not use the living room that much, and want to use the lights in that room as "pilot lights" for the grid, so I can check if the grid loses power.

I can do an explicit "grid on/off" indicator, but will need to run independent wires to the power distribution panel. Using the entire room as a pilot light works better.

... Spring, summer and fall, we could go without grid power. In the coldest month of winter, we could go about 7 days without taking conservation measures. Longer if we did.

I guess you do not use electricity for heating. It takes a heck of a lot of solar and battery juice for either heating or cooling.

My neighbor a couple streets over got a Tesla powerwall connected to his solar for this concern...

A single Tesla Powerwall stores about 15 kWh. It's not enough to run a central AC. That's enough for lighting, electronics, a fridge, and a window AC for perhaps 8-10 hours.
 
The following graph from my utility company shows my grid consumption over a recent 24-hour period.

As is obvious, my battery ran out at 1AM, and the 4 inverters (2.4 kW each) turned off one after another. The whole house was on grid in the early morning, and you can see that even at night the ACs still drew as much as 2.5 kW.

After sunrise, the solar panels started to generate, and when the battery voltage climbed up sufficiently, the 4 inverters started to kick on one after another. My grid consumption during the day was a minimal 200W, due to the circuits I left on the grid. That 200W base consumption was mostly due to the auxiliary fridge plus some phantom draws of small electronic devices.


PS. Even though my solar generation is not sufficient to meet the daily demand with the ACs running 24/7, the battery helps me be off-grid way past the 8PM time, the cut-off for the high on-peak rate. From 2PM to 8 PM, the utility company charges 25c/kWh. Outside of the peak period, it's 8c/kWh.

Because the most I pay for grid power is 8c/kWh, I am already past the diminishing return point if I add more solar panels and more batteries. Yet, I am doing the system expansion just for fun.



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The original question was “will utilities shut off power to prevent fires and subsequent lawsuits”? Where it applies, probably. It will also depend on likelihood of lawsuits from purposeful outages. Utilities run a precarious balance between profits and public opinion, particularly regulated utilities.

As far as backup generators go, each situation is different, so there’s not a lot of value in describing the system we put in our last house, nor why we do not have one in this house.

Factors we use to decide include: likelihood of power outages in area (history, above ground distribution, age of transmission system, distance/ability of service trucks to travel), impact of outage on your home (well pump, furnace/air conditioning, freezer, life support), cost/impact of alternatives (generator, hotel, family/friends), confidence in the accuracy of the information. Another factor might be the condition of your home electrical system and layout to accommodate an alternate power source.
 
...
I guess you do not use electricity for heating. It takes a heck of a lot of solar and battery juice for either heating or cooling.
...

We do actually. And yes, heat is the biggest single electrical draw unless you count our EVs.

We have an incredibly efficient house though which doesn't require as much energy to heat as the average house.

We also have about 42kWh of batteries. Summer in Minnesota used to not require cooling. It still doesn't most of the time, but the exceptions are more common.
If it is cloudy in the coldest of winter for an entire week (which is within the realm of possibilities), we would likely need to turn the heat down to 50 and find somewhere else to weather the storm.
If the sun comes out any of those days, it would likely buy us another day and a half.
 
We have an incredibly efficient house though which doesn't require as much energy to heat as the average house.
We have a 2200 sqft house in North Texas which is fairly efficient (aka sealed and insulated). We can run the whole house and HVACs (5 mini-splits w/ heat pump) using a 10KW portable generator. So yes, efficiency matters. However we do have to supplement heat with wood fireplace if the outside temperature is below zero.

PS: We loose power almost every month (rural area) so we can't live without a generator.
 
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