Different paths for living life

Markola said:
we have different fundamental objectives for what we think will satisfy us most in our own lives. Some want stimulation, others comfort, others adventure, others money, others fun, others creativity, others power, others independence, others connection, others service, others security... ..
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And some want love.
 
Interesting thread. It has made me feel very fortunate that I came of age in the 1970s. I was very ambitious, as were all my friends. There was a premium placed on education, reading, knowledge it seemed. All my friends headed for college and then graduate school, becoming professors, scientists, lawyers, and community leaders. We never thought twice about the fact that we were going to pursue a career. Were we privileged? Yes. But we weren't the elite or rich by any means. Most of us came from working class families who, again, saw education as the way "up." My parents were avid readers and the house was full of books. It was also a heady time for women entering the professional classes, with what seemed wide open possibilities. Again, looking back, I feel very fortunate. I just retired this year after a very rich professional career. I worked extremely hard for many years through some sense of self-ambition.
 
Marita40 said:
Interesting thread. It has made me feel very fortunate that I came of age in the 1970s. I was very ambitious, as were all my friends. There was a premium placed on education, reading, knowledge it seemed. All my friends headed for college and then graduate school, becoming professors, scientists, lawyers, and community leaders. We never thought twice about the fact that we were going to pursue a career. Were we privileged? Yes. But we weren't the elite or rich by any means. Most of us came from working class families who, again, saw education as the way "up." My parents were avid readers and the house was full of books. It was also a heady time for women entering the professional classes, with what seemed wide open possibilities. Again, looking back, I feel very fortunate. I just retired this year after a very rich professional career. I worked extremely hard for many years through some sense of self-ambition.
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Exactly the same for us. My parents did not have that benefit. My sister and I are first generation...my parents both came on a boat.

They wanted us to have options and to get the education or vocational training and the career opportunities that they did not have. They placed a huge emphasis on education, life long learning, reading, etc. We set the same goals and horizons for our children.

They taught us to always live within our means, save a litttle, and to be thankful for what we have, and to always be tolerant of and to make room for those who come to our country for the same simple reason that they did. A better life for their children. Not much different that millions of others I would think.
 
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brett said:
We have often wondered the same thing. Is it home influence or lack thereof or friends or something else?

My spouse has four siblings, with families who live in a small town. Huge difference between families.

In two of the families the children went to universities in various ciites. Some went on to post graduate work. All have had interesting and rewarding careers, travel etc.

The other two families had children that seemed afraid to leave their mommies apron strings or their high school friends. Some had no post high school edu. A few went to hoacky bible schools (more bridal than bible) or took courses at a small community college that lead nowhere other than low paying service industry jobs....especially since they would not leave town to for further education or job opportunities. More of a waste of time and money than anything. Before they knew it they married too young, some were single parents.

They went either because their friends were going or they did not have enough gumption or guidance to investigate alternatives. As a result most of them are still in low wage insecure jobs, service or otherwise, and have not really travelled anywhere. And absolutely zero preparation for retirement. They are all smart. It just seems such a waste of talent and opportuntiy to us. Watching this from the sidelines made a difference in how we encouraged our own children to move forward with their lives, become independent, and follow career paths that they found rewarding, interesting, etc.

As adults, the difference in the outlook of these nieces and nephews is so incredibly different. As is their interest in life.
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I didn't know you lived in my township:LOL: But I will add that the stay at home, money strapped kids seem happy and content. They don't feel that they have wasted something. I would say that the parents and extended family did not give them a vision of possible life beyond the family circle.


Now my DH and the Bro he farms with have 5 kids. All have left the local nest. No one is closer then 2 hours. I know for a fact that some locals would think we weren't a "close" family because the kids all left!!!
 
ivinsfan said:
I didn't know you lived in my township:LOL: But I will add that the stay at home, money strapped kids seem happy and content. They don't feel that they have wasted something. I would say that the parents and extended family did not give them a vision of possible life beyond the family circle.


Now my DH and the Bro he farms with have 5 kids. All have left the local nest. No one is closer then 2 hours. I know for a fact that some locals would think we weren't a "close" family because the kids all left!!!
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One other glaring difference between them. The ones that stayed in their home town and did nothing seem to suck up and repost all those crazy conspiracy theories with wide eyed belief. It is quite astonishing.

The ones who moved on with their lives view them with distain, as entertainment value, or in complete shock that anyone could swallow the kool-aid, let alone re-post and make such a fool of themselves.
 
brett said:
One other glaring difference between them. The ones that stayed in their home town and did nothing seem to suck up and repost all those crazy conspiracy theories with wide eyed belief. It is quite astonishing.

The ones who moved on with their lives view them with distain, as entertainment value, or in complete shock that anyone could swallow the kool-aid, let alone re-post and make such a fool of themselves.
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No and No ..and No again. Not my experience please don't quote my post and add comments like this. My post says nothing remotely like this.
 
brett said:
One other glaring difference between them. The ones that stayed in their home town and did nothing seem to suck up and repost all those crazy conspiracy theories with wide eyed belief. It is quite astonishing.

The ones who moved on with their lives view them with distain, as entertainment value, or in complete shock that anyone could swallow the kool-aid, let alone re-post and make such a fool of themselves.
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An awful lot of generalization going on here based, I am guessing, on your own biases. Why even take the conversation in this direction?
 
Major Tom said:
An awful lot of generalization going on here based, I am guessing, on your own biases. Why even take the conversation in this direction?
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MODERATOR NOTE: Why indeed? That way lies madness, and we should avoid it.
 
This thread brings to mind the class story of the fisherman and the businessman (author unknown, all over the internet, in various forms):


The businessman was at the pier of a small coastal Mexican village when a small boat with just one fisherman docked. Inside the small boat were several large yellow-fin tuna.

The businessman complimented the Mexican on the quality of his fish and asked how long it took to catch them. The Mexican replied “only a little while”.

The businessman then asked why he didn’t stay out longer and catch more fish? The Mexican said “I have enough to support my family’s immediate needs”. The businessman then asked, but what do you do with the rest of your time?

The Mexican fisherman said, “I sleep late, fish a little, play with my children, take a siesta with my wife, Maria, stroll into the village each evening where I sip wine and play guitar with my amigos; I have a full and busy life, señor.”

The businessman scoffed, “I am a Harvard MBA and I could help you. You should spend more time fishing and with the proceeds buy a bigger boat. With the proceeds from the bigger boat you could buy several boats; eventually you would have a fleet of fishing boats.

Instead of selling your catch to a middleman, you would sell directly to the processor and eventually open your own cannery. You would control the product, processing and distribution. You would need to leave this small coastal fishing village and move to Mexico City, then LA and eventually New York City where you would run your expanding enterprise.”

The Mexican fisherman asked, “But señor, how long will this all take?” To which the businessman replied, “15-20 years.” “But what then, señor?”
The businessman laughed and said, “That’s the best part! When the time is right you would announce an IPO and sell your company stock to the public and become very rich. You would make millions.”

“Millions, señor? Then what?” The businessman said, “Then you would retire. Move to a small coastal fishing village where you would sleep late, fish a little, play with your kids, take a siesta with your wife, stroll to the village in the evenings where you could sip wine and play your guitar with your amigos.”

The fisherman, still smiling, looked up and said, “Isn’t that what I’m doing right now?”
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As a child of the 60's, we had two options--go to college or get drafted and go to Vietnam. Needless to say many people chose college, especially since state University tuition was so cheap. My last semester cost me $192.50. No student loans to burden us to age 50 either.

Unfortunately we're in days where such negative motivations are not in play.

We have seen a large hreakdown in family values. First, there were beer drinkers, then came marijuana and harder, more serious drugs. Now we're being overrun by meth users.

Last time I was down at our jail, they had 250 in population where it was built for 150 people. I was told 90% of the population were there for something yo do with meth. They were either meth cooks (shake & bake), sellers or thieves stealing to buy drugs.

Families after so many problems just wash their hands of children and grandchildren. They refuse to bail them out, and after 3 mos., judges release them. They sometimes go to rehab, but meth takes 1 year to get out of their system, and treatment is not often successful. Within 6 months, they're back in jail. And it starts over again. Along the way, a child or two will be part of the equation and an old low quality baby momma or two.

Look up and the grandparents are taking care of 1-2 grandkids raising them.

You can raise kids right, but they have free will. And we were victims to burglaries and car thefts one too many times. We finally moved who and took our 9 year old granddaughter with us.
 
In the end - it doesn't even matter! Jollystomper's post above captures it nicely.

We all have different level of anxiety, ambitions and means to find happiness. I see a bit of "self-admiration" going on in this thread, me thinks.

Those kids are enjoying their lives , living a slow pace, low stress life style, lets say from age 20-40 - when they are still young and can enjoy life better.

Others who have amassed wealth, and lets say enjoy life from age 60-80. After 80, its mostly counting to the end days and mobility is extremely limited. Both class of people eat food, and sleep in a bed that is not much different. Everything else is inside our brain.

Another way to look at this is - ever watch ants building and digging mud-holes? Take one ant that is working extremely hard and has created the biggest dirt-pile and is so proud of its hard work. And then watch another one that is just goofing around but hardly getting anything done. In the end does it even matter?
 
A Whole Different Outlook

So a few years back I was a dept head/mgr of a decent-sized organization and I had to deal with employee evaluations, appraisals, hirings, firings, disciplinary programs, etc., etc., etc. Now we had some great performers at all ages but I have to say the younger cadre would offer some challenges. A big part was their attitude towards work, company loyalty, work ethic, etc. was often different from the older workers and especially different from the prior military younger folks as I usually had no problems from Vets, they were usually my better staffers.

I would do everything to explain to an employee who got an "unsatisfactory" performance review where the discrepancies were (usually simple stuff like coming in late, turning in work late or poorly done, lacking in follow-through, etc." ) I'd give them specifics that they needed to improve or focus on and take corrective action. I'd tell them to let me know if they would encounter any issues that they were unsure about or needed guidance. Alas, most would act nonchalant and reflect a "couldn't really care less" attitude.

I took a few management seminars on how to better understand younger workers and the short story I learned is that the younger workforce was less focused on corporate culture, more about "me time" and work was not really something they felt strongly about. If someone got suspended from work in my day, it was a stain of guilt. But the younger workers looked at it as justified "vacation" and almost a badge of honor. Different times for sure.

We've all read the stories about "Failures to Launch" or kids moving back in with parents, etc., etc. I have nieces and nephews who are in the late 30's, 40's, and 50's and a majority are still floating around the same dead-end jobs and only one got an in-demand degree in tech and is killing it moneywise. He's investing on the side hoping to FIRE in 15 years.

I think in my own family's case -- the parents were well-intentioned but they were "helicopter parents" throughout most of these kids' lives and would move heaven and earth to make sure they didn't fail or miss out in school. I honestly think failure is a wonderful teacher and motivator but these kids had parents practically doing everything for their kids when they were in school.

I know a lot of young marrieds who aren't saving anything and just spend, spend, spend. This is also true among many of my former associates and friends. They just haven't developed the emotional intelligence necessary when it comes to managing their career or financial goals and instead riding the flotsam and jetsam of whatever life brings their way. They appear to not have a care in the world I guess thinking they'll work forever unless they inherit a windfall when their parents die.

God bless 'em
 
Our son works 2 jobs. When he graduated college - he did not come home afterwards- I had to write him a letter to push him along to get a real job. Before that he was floundering. Working on a horse ranch for room and board. A cashier and security guard for a pharmacy.

He finally got a starter job- low salary but good experience. Well he’s 33 now and still there. 11 years later. He doesn’t even like it it but it’s steady and has health insurance. And he does not look for a different job.

On weekends he works at a brewery/ restaurant. He was cooking but he now bar tends and loves it. Very into the beer community. He’s still single and still living in the old, worn out, dingy apartment he lived in with his college roommates. With dumpster furniture. Never been painted. Same carpet. You get the picture.

We basically just accept that it’s his life and that’s it. He does wish he could find a partner but has not had luck in that regard. He did have 3 girlfriends in the past.
 
Lack of Opportunity

MichaelB said:
Late 30’s to mid-40’s seem old to be considered kids. In my experience - our children, nieces and nephews, their friends - they have similar goals to those we had at the same age. Family, career, getting ahead, thinking about the future. Employment had changed since then but people haven’t.

Jobs and opportunities are not available equally around the country. Some areas have much much opportunity while other areas much less. This is not new, but what often appears as a lack of interest may also be a lack of opportunity.
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I especially agree with this. Around my upstate New York area I'm seeing less and less investment into stable, civil-service related employment and private industries are so unstable these days. I don't think younger people are seeing the kind of opportunities us baby-boomers have carved our comfy niches within.

True there is a sort of self-investment attitude that younger folks have, but us baby-boomer parents, like our parents before us have passed along that depression-era mentality that "my kids aren't going to have it as tough as I did." This contributes also to some of what we're seeing. As this tendency continues from generation to generation, the sense of entitlement can grow...depending on our own proclivities and how much we as parents are willing to step back and let our children take their lumps.
 
When I was 28 the flying bug bit me and I did a bunch of pleasure flying. My job was seasonal in nature, and I would fly when there was no work. This went on for 10 years or so.
I'm sure we could have retired 5 years ago but for that plane and hooning around the US.
I wouldn't trade it for anything. Some things are better done when you are young.
 
meleana said:
Our son works 2 jobs. When he graduated college - he did not come home afterwards- I had to write him a letter to push him along to get a real job. Before that he was floundering. Working on a horse ranch for room and board. A cashier and security guard for a pharmacy.

He finally got a starter job- low salary but good experience. Well he’s 33 now and still there. 11 years later. He doesn’t even like it it but it’s steady and has health insurance. And he does not look for a different job.

On weekends he works at a brewery/ restaurant. He was cooking but he now bar tends and loves it. Very into the beer community. He’s still single and still living in the old, worn out, dingy apartment he lived in with his college roommates. With dumpster furniture. Never been painted. Same carpet. You get the picture.

We basically just accept that it’s his life and that’s it. He does wish he could find a partner but has not had luck in that regard. He did have 3 girlfriends in the past.
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And there it is. Many girlfriends/boyfriends will not stay around for too long when their lover is just floating around in life.
So what happens when they reach 60 years old? I am guessing some hidden regrets.
 
Several posts about how the young are not seeming to be up to the task. And yes, it is a worry as the world seems to be very competitive now. I'm thinking especially of China.

But thinking about my generation, there was a lot of worry about all those hippy types. Seems like things kind of worked out though. I hope they do going forward for the younger generation. There are a lot of tech jobs nowadays and I would guess those young people are doing quite well. Our son is not terribly analytical (not an engineer or scientist) but went to college (late) and is making a very good salary and is highly motivated. As I mentioned above, he just got married and they are having a baby and just bought a townhouse (with some help from the bank of Mom & Dad).
 
NoEZmoney said:
So a few years back I was a dept head/mgr of a decent-sized organization and I had to deal with employee evaluations, appraisals, hirings, firings, disciplinary programs, etc., etc., etc. Now we had some great performers at all ages but I have to say the younger cadre would offer some challenges. A big part was their attitude towards work, company loyalty, work ethic, etc. was often different from the older workers and especially different from the prior military younger folks as I usually had no problems from Vets, they were usually my better staffers.

I would do everything to explain to an employee who got an "unsatisfactory" performance review where the discrepancies were (usually simple stuff like coming in late, turning in work late or poorly done, lacking in follow-through, etc." ) I'd give them specifics that they needed to improve or focus on and take corrective action. I'd tell them to let me know if they would encounter any issues that they were unsure about or needed guidance. Alas, most would act nonchalant and reflect a "couldn't really care less" attitude.

I took a few management seminars on how to better understand younger workers and the short story I learned is that the younger workforce was less focused on corporate culture, more about "me time" and work was not really something they felt strongly about. If someone got suspended from work in my day, it was a stain of guilt. But the younger workers looked at it as justified "vacation" and almost a badge of honor. Different times for sure.

We've all read the stories about "Failures to Launch" or kids moving back in with parents, etc., etc. I have nieces and nephews who are in the late 30's, 40's, and 50's and a majority are still floating around the same dead-end jobs and only one got an in-demand degree in tech and is killing it moneywise. He's investing on the side hoping to FIRE in 15 years.

I think in my own family's case -- the parents were well-intentioned but they were "helicopter parents" throughout most of these kids' lives and would move heaven and earth to make sure they didn't fail or miss out in school. I honestly think failure is a wonderful teacher and motivator but these kids had parents practically doing everything for their kids when they were in school.

I know a lot of young marrieds who aren't saving anything and just spend, spend, spend. This is also true among many of my former associates and friends. They just haven't developed the emotional intelligence necessary when it comes to managing their career or financial goals and instead riding the flotsam and jetsam of whatever life brings their way. They appear to not have a care in the world I guess thinking they'll work forever unless they inherit a windfall when their parents die.

God bless 'em
Click to expand...

Very well said.
 
I'm pretty sure kids will do just fine without our generation(s) pearl clutching. It's their job to to change the world now and ours to leave them to it.
 
On second thought, I think that the fallacy is the belief that everyone wants the same thing out of life.

We often just assume that everyone wants to live in a world where you go to bed at night knowing that the bills are paid, there's food in the fridge and the car will start in the morning.

[-]Sadly[/-], Interestingly, there are people for whom those are not priorities. They'll take whatever they can as long as they don't have to break a sweat (or get up too early) to get it and are quiet happy with what they can get with a minimum of effort.

We have nieces and nephews (on DW's side), now in their 40's who are quite fine with having to step over piles of laundry, living in a shifty neighborhood and eating junk food as long as their Netflix, HBO and video games keep working. Their favorite expression: "That's too much like work".

True story: a few weeks ago we brought some food over. I said that I badly needed to use the bathroom (old man in his late 60's!). Hardly embarrassed and with a bit of a laugh, they told me that "wasn't a good idea" and politely but seriously said, 'no'. I had to run to Dunks down the street. Found out later that the toilet 'wasn't really working all that well' and hadn't been flushed in a few weeks; but!!!....Netflix had some great shows all day long!
 
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Another ants vs. grasshoppers thread.
 
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