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Old 11-07-2018, 10:11 PM   #101
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My mom died one week ago. She went into the hospital for something relatively minor and they effed up her COPD. 10 days later she's requesting hospice (lasted 48 hours). We planned her cremation and bought her urns on Costco.com while she was in the ICU. Did I agree with her decision? No, but it was not my call. She lived with us and I miss her terribly.
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Old 11-08-2018, 01:43 AM   #102
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I’m very sorry for your loss.
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Old 11-08-2018, 02:59 AM   #103
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How awful, Buckeye. My condolences. These posts form a cautionary tale for all of us about end of life wishes, instructions, and their implementation.

-BB
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Old 11-08-2018, 04:41 AM   #104
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I think anyone who's watched a loved one suffer needlessly understands that there should be better options.

I really don't understand why anyone would oppose the concept of death with dignity. Is it just a personal fear of dying? Mistrust of doctors and family who might have evil intent?

I know some have mentioned the fear of making a mistake. I get the point. But it seems to me the risk is very small, compared to the very large risk of being kept alive, suffering and with no prospects for any quality of life ahead.

It also seems a little selfish. I've always tried to contribute something to the lives of friends and family, and to society in general. When I can no longer do that, my job here will be done. No need to hang around just to prove I can keep breathing, as some kind of a living trophy to medical science. No need to burden my family.
Have you considered those whose religious beliefs do not favor that?
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Old 11-08-2018, 05:43 AM   #105
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What I find most concerning in this discussion is that so many folks have experience with those who have endured needless pain/suffering due to mistakes within the medical community. If you do not have an advocate (a capable one) you might lie in a bed for hours, days, weeks in pain while you are all but ignored, or worse, maltreated. There ARE pain-treatment regimens which should alleviate suffering for almost all situations, if they are planned, monitored, and carried out. It's intolerable that this is NOT apparently universally a priority to the medical profession.

My other concern is that we will begin to substitute D-W-D instead of adequate patient treatment. I have no problem with administering enough meds to alleviate pain. If those meds hasten death, so be it. But administering a "hot shot" goes a bit too far for me, though I understand I'm probably in the minority. I would admit that I might change my mind if I were the one suffering (or had to watch a loved one suffer) so YMMV.
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Old 11-08-2018, 06:25 AM   #106
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It is a sad thread to read and sorry for all your losses. I seen my parents live long life but in the last years in nursing homes and it was hard years for me to see this.
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Old 11-08-2018, 08:53 AM   #107
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A lot has been said about pain management, and that's a good discussion to have.

But the problem isn't always pain.

We had no way of knowing whether my mother was in pain. She had checked out years before, and only her tough, farm-raised body was resisting the inevitable. She would have been appalled that we let her "live" that way. My father lost most of the good years he has left caring for her. She would never have wanted that.

But there are no options for that situation. Every family member and friend knew what she would have wanted, but it wasn't available.

Where does that leave those of us who have watched this sort of thing happen?

Knowing that no-one else can intervene, are we to come up with our own solution at the first sign that we're losing our mental faculties? Will we even know?

It's terrifying. I'd much rather know that a competent, informed decision-maker would be able to act in my best interests, if I got to that point.

The risk of the decision being made too soon is trivial compared to the horror of not being able to make it at all.
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Old 11-08-2018, 03:00 PM   #108
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Have you considered those whose religious beliefs do not favor that?
DWD laws simply offer an option, with safeguards, to those who are interested. They don't govern your choices or your beliefs at all, you and your family members wouldn't be impacted by a DWD law. I assume you're not suggesting laws for others should be based on the religious beliefs of others.
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Old 11-09-2018, 09:30 AM   #109
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I guess you do not know people who have demetia.... my mom is there... but she is still living a good life and enjoys what she is doing... as we say 'she is living in the moment'.... she is not making any new memories as that part of her brain disappeared when she became septic a few years ago... but the rest of her mind still is working.... she is considered high functioning...


If you just met her you would have no idea she was demented... she can tell you stories about her youth and all the interesting things she has done over the years... you might notice when she started to tell you them over again and again, but right off the bat you would not know...



She loves playing games... heck, the staff where she is tells us she insists on them doing something every day.. and I go and play parcheesi with her all the time and she still wins at times...


Why would I want to take away her enjoyment in the last years of her life?


Now, there are some people there that look comatose and basically drool all day in a wheelchair... have to be fed... can do nothing on their own... not in pain mind you, but just a body with no mind IMO... I would NOT want to be subjected to this and from what my mom has told me over the years she would also not want to be this way...
Maybe you only know one person with dementia? My mom was where your mom is until 6 months ago. There are 7 stages to dementia. Your mom is probably stage 4 or thereabouts. It's the later stages that are scary. Not the earlier ones.

" I would NOT want to be subjected to this and from what my mom has told me over the years she would also not want to be this way..."

You may have no choice unfortunately..


https://www.dementiacarecentral.com/.../facts/stages/
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Old 11-09-2018, 11:21 AM   #110
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Maybe you only know one person with dementia? My mom was where your mom is until 6 months ago. There are 7 stages to dementia. Your mom is probably stage 4 or thereabouts. It's the later stages that are scary. Not the earlier ones.

" I would NOT want to be subjected to this and from what my mom has told me over the years she would also not want to be this way..."

You may have no choice unfortunately..


https://www.dementiacarecentral.com/.../facts/stages/

I knew a couple of people with it... and when I was younger a relatively young guy with Alzheimer who was late stage... and died of it...



I agree, the later stages I would not want go through... I see a lot of late stage where my mom is now...


Reading the list, I would say my mom is in stage 5 and some of stage 6... even though she is high functioning otherwise... part of her problem is that she got sepsis and that by itself in someone old takes away a lot of the mind...


If she were like some of the people there I would say it was time... and my mom would also say so..


But IIRC you said you would want to go when you were half demented... I think that is a bit early, but to each his own...
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Old 11-10-2018, 12:27 PM   #111
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But the real question here is whether you believe it is nevertheless the right of every person to decide his/her own destiny? Maybe it is not a good idea, but it is my idea, not yours, and what I do with my ideas is my business, not yours. Yes?
Sure, even if you would be making a mistake, it's yours to make.
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Old 11-10-2018, 12:31 PM   #112
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Here is an excerpt from a Seinfeld episode in which Kramer decides he wants to die with dignity if he is ever in a coma. Hilarity ensues, of course. :-)

A good laugh. Thanks.


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